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Forums - Sony Discussion - Why I'm Not Excited for Gran Turismo 7

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Are You Excited for GT 7?

Yes, I will get it on PS5. 28 36.84%
 
Yes, I will get it on PS4. 1 1.32%
 
Not really, but I enjoyed... 20 26.32%
 
No, but I am not intereted in GT at all. 27 35.53%
 
Total:76
SvennoJ said:
JackHandy said:

No, I wasn't aware of that. How did they build for the PS5, when they didn't even know what specs or architecture of PS5 would be? Did Sony let them in on it early or something?

PD build it from the ground up to support native 8K, 120 fps, 10 bit rec.2020 up to 10K nits, from source textures all the way to the end result. It's made ready for ray tracing, yet since the ps4 doesn't have that it was using pre-rendered lighting, shadows and reflections instead.

The precise specs don't matter when building a new engine. Making sure you can support all the expected features (rec.2020, HDR, ray tracing) to their fullest extent is what makes it future proof. The SSD speed is a nice bonus, but likely won't be fully utilized to stream data beyond faster loading.

https://www.fullthrottlemedia.co.uk/article/gt-sport-industry
Now GTPlanet has revealed that Gran Turismo Sport was recently showcased at a Japanese consumer electronics show in Tokyo dubbed ‘InterBEE 2018.’ Sony was there to showcase its high-end Crystal LED displays, with a massive 440-inch screen displaying Gran Turismo Sport in native 8K resolution at a blistering 120fps.

I see. Pretty neat stuff. Thanks!

But I have a question. In the past (Pre-PS4 gen), developers use to say that a system's architecture dictated what they could or could no do. For instance, PS1 got more 3D games than Saturn due to the unique abilities of the machine. Same for Xbox 360, due to the difficulties of working with the Cell processor. So what's changed? How are these people able to develop for consoles without knowing the full specs? That's what I'm not understanding. Has the way these companies built their consoles changed so something like that is possible? 



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JackHandy said:
SvennoJ said:

PD build it from the ground up to support native 8K, 120 fps, 10 bit rec.2020 up to 10K nits, from source textures all the way to the end result. It's made ready for ray tracing, yet since the ps4 doesn't have that it was using pre-rendered lighting, shadows and reflections instead.

The precise specs don't matter when building a new engine. Making sure you can support all the expected features (rec.2020, HDR, ray tracing) to their fullest extent is what makes it future proof. The SSD speed is a nice bonus, but likely won't be fully utilized to stream data beyond faster loading.

https://www.fullthrottlemedia.co.uk/article/gt-sport-industry
Now GTPlanet has revealed that Gran Turismo Sport was recently showcased at a Japanese consumer electronics show in Tokyo dubbed ‘InterBEE 2018.’ Sony was there to showcase its high-end Crystal LED displays, with a massive 440-inch screen displaying Gran Turismo Sport in native 8K resolution at a blistering 120fps.

I see. Pretty neat stuff. Thanks!

But I have a question. In the past (Pre-PS4 gen), developers use to say that a system's architecture dictated what they could or could no do. For instance, PS1 got more 3D games than Saturn due to the unique abilities of the machine. Same for Xbox 360, due to the difficulties of working with the Cell processor. So what's changed? How are these people able to develop for consoles without knowing the full specs? That's what I'm not understanding. Has the way these companies built their consoles changed so something like that is possible? 

I don't think they new the exact specs, but they prepared for 8k, native 4k.  Stuff like brightness nits, full color gamut, etc, they took into consideration the future and put it into the engine to allow it to be scalable and taken advantage of in future hardware and tv sets when available to consumers.  As for ray tracing , they probably expected it but not sure how important it was.  These are additions they can add to the game. They new the ps5 will be much powerful, and started working on tech like full day/night to make it into all maps cause of the boost in power, ssd,  along with atmospheric tech, which i'm not sure will make it to the ps4 version. Track and map detail will hugely benefit on the ps5.  Then audio is another major boost.

Gt7 on ps4 will look like gt sport, and that game will have all the gameplay content such as tuning and campaing mode, photo mode etc.. For those who play it on ps4 will be happy no doubt, considering gt sport was lacking along of features from previous games.  But on ps5 it will be a beast, and not to forget the load speeds due to the ssd. 



JackHandy said:

I see. Pretty neat stuff. Thanks!

But I have a question. In the past (Pre-PS4 gen), developers use to say that a system's architecture dictated what they could or could no do. For instance, PS1 got more 3D games than Saturn due to the unique abilities of the machine. Same for Xbox 360, due to the difficulties of working with the Cell processor. So what's changed? How are these people able to develop for consoles without knowing the full specs? That's what I'm not understanding. Has the way these companies built their consoles changed so something like that is possible? 

What @KratosLives said, and also yes, the way Sony builds their consoles has changed. The cell processor was the last outing to an 'exotic' architecture that was harder to program for. PS4 and now PS5 are much like PC with more standard components. The non standard part is the SSD direct to RAM loading (which windows is getting as well soon in the form of DirectStorage) which the (GT Sport) engine is likely not tuned for.

Ray tracing was a long time coming though and PS5 likely won't be able to make full use of it yet

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt7real-time-ray-tracing-20200618/

Polyphony Digital has been working on real-time ray tracing in Gran Turismo for a number of years. While GT Sport uses a pre-rendered ray tracing environment, PD has also developed real-time ray tracing for Gran Turismo assets.


https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-reveals-gt-sports-iris-ray-tracing-system-at-cedec-2018/

One noteworthy topic discussed in the presentation is Polyphony Digital’s newly developed “Iris” rendering system. It’s a “Monte Carlo ray tracing system”

Polyphony Digital built Iris entirely in-house and it was used for the first time in Gran Turismo Sport. Iris uses a “baking” method which pre-renders lighting in the environment. This generates realistic light and shadows, but it is almost certainly the reason we don’t have dynamic time-of-day or dynamic weather conditions in Sport.

Baking a course like the Nürburgring — which the paper explains is 42GB of compressed data — is distributed to eight rendering servers with 40 CPU cores each. The 320 total cores can render lighting data for all 42GB in about 30 minutes.


That won't be running on PS5 in real time, but I guess as with everything else coming this gen, it will be a mix of pre-baked lighting with real time ray tracing on top for the cars. It should blend well since the environments are all the assets have been made with ray tracing in mind.



About devs knowing before hand the next system. They do know based on a new gen PS start being made when a current one released, the spec is somewhat guessed based on where the technology will be in 5 years by trends. Also don't forget Sony asks the devs what they want of the next hardware for years before launch.
What really changes in the 6 years is the details and the devkit, but most of the work start being made years before (with a very good ballpark idea of the power and features), or anyone think they make launch games in 6 months?

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 14 September 2021

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SvennoJ said:
KratosLives said:

This game probably has the best lighting I have seen in a game. The ambient lighting, ray tracing, reflections, shadows, track detail, accuracy of day and night time. This is a big step up from gt sport, and obviously running on ps5 not ps4. In my opinion this is a step up from even horizon 5.

It already was that way on PS4, and best HDR I've seen in any game. The night lighting in HDR is unmatched and day time looks great as well with the skies and contrast while going through tunnels.

However it was all baked lighting, reflections, shadows on PS4. Using shadow lines as brake markers, that's not very realistic! I was hoping for more real time lighting, maybe some real time ray tracing on ps5 instead of more static light maps. But static maps still provide better visuals than dynamic lighting, and PD is always chasing after the best look.

With more variation (more static maps) and short races static lighting and weather isn't much of an issue. The silly 10 minute day/night cycle you could set in GT5 and DriveClub was not immersive at all, and for any 10 minute race in real time, you would not see the light change anyway. In Forza Horizon 4 I also felt disconnected with the accelerated time as with most games with day/night cycles. Night is more of a nuisance than exciting. MGS2 had a great feeling of time progression with its baked in cycle, set to story progression. That felt immersive. Same as now in FS2020 with real time and weather, very immersive. Yet of course in flight sims flights can take many hours, race games are more a bunch of quick rounds.

But what about endurance races, will they be back in GT7, and will you be able to race into the night. Plus why not have real time for sport races, the time and weather accurately reflecting the time and weather at the location of the track. There is still a long way to go before race sims are 'finished'. Accurate seasons is next.

Anyway, it seems PD is focusing on weather atm, maybe just static presets for now, yet all that experience will make it easier to switch to a dynamic version later. FS2020's live weather is good but not on the level of what PD is trying to do. Aerosol density, visibility, haze, smog are all missing from FS2020, as well as cumulonimbus clouds and others. It looks very nice, but still misses so much compared to looking at the sky outside. FS2020 has presets as well, and they still outshine live weather in many ways.

The battle between dynamic and (static) presets continue!

All I know is playing GT5 and doing the Leman 24 Hr race in two 12 Hr shifts driving at night with the rain was awesome , and my one complaint was high beam was useless.



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mjk45 said:

All I know is playing GT5 and doing the Leman 24 Hr race in two 12 Hr shifts driving at night with the rain was awesome , and my one complaint was high beam was useless.

Haha yep, I did that on the Nordschleife and it was so dark! It seemed like some cars didn't have any headlights at all. It would be very cool if you could do a 24hr race with saves in the pit, like in GT5, but with more cars on the track.



I'm excited for it, a lot, even if it was just a GT6 remaster it would still be way better than GT Sport, you mention campaign in GT sport, have you actually played it? I got Gold on all challenges on the first try, it wasn't fun, just boring, the campaign was just tacked on. Remember that the biggest GT fans love the campaign, we didn't have online GT until recently, GT1, 2, 3 and 4 were considered the best ones, and those were not online, they focused on great campaigns.

Graphics on youtube mean nothing, GT sport looked just OK on a ps4 slim, but when I tried it on the ps4 pro it looked like a different game, way cleaner, even tough you cant see the difference on youtube.

This will be the same, a huge jump, but youtube doesn't do it justice.

I fully believe the game that will push graphics will be forza 8, but in the end we are at a point that graphics is just cleaning aliasing and little things like that. Games like Ratchet and clank already look like a pixar movie, sure they can improve it but wont be that noticeable.



SvennoJ said:
mjk45 said:

All I know is playing GT5 and doing the Leman 24 Hr race in two 12 Hr shifts driving at night with the rain was awesome , and my one complaint was high beam was useless.

Haha yep, I did that on the Nordschleife and it was so dark! It seemed like some cars didn't have any headlights at all. It would be very cool if you could do a 24hr race with saves in the pit, like in GT5, but with more cars on the track.

What about on a hdr setup? 



victor83fernandes said:

I'm excited for it, a lot, even if it was just a GT6 remaster it would still be way better than GT Sport, you mention campaign in GT sport, have you actually played it? I got Gold on all challenges on the first try, it wasn't fun, just boring, the campaign was just tacked on. Remember that the biggest GT fans love the campaign, we didn't have online GT until recently, GT1, 2, 3 and 4 were considered the best ones, and those were not online, they focused on great campaigns.

Graphics on youtube mean nothing, GT sport looked just OK on a ps4 slim, but when I tried it on the ps4 pro it looked like a different game, way cleaner, even tough you cant see the difference on youtube.

This will be the same, a huge jump, but youtube doesn't do it justice.

I fully believe the game that will push graphics will be forza 8, but in the end we are at a point that graphics is just cleaning aliasing and little things like that. Games like Ratchet and clank already look like a pixar movie, sure they can improve it but wont be that noticeable.

Didn't they say at one point after gt5/gt6, that the campaign started to feel the same or not as interesting , and they started hyping forza campaigns and need for speed shift as the way to go? Maybe i'm wrong, maybe it was one game that had a mediocre campaign. I myself haven't haven't played forza or shift, but will campaign that gt fans are used still feel fresh, can it compete with forza or shift? In terms of feeling rewarding through progression, which is what shift got rave reviews for. 

As for forza 8, I saw the trailer and wasn't too impressed visually. The textutres and vehichles did not look as good as in gt7, or sport.  Maybe it's the art style but it doesn't look photo realistic.  I honestly can't see it topping gt7 in the visual department. PD put too much care in cars and track design.



KratosLives said:
victor83fernandes said:

I'm excited for it, a lot, even if it was just a GT6 remaster it would still be way better than GT Sport, you mention campaign in GT sport, have you actually played it? I got Gold on all challenges on the first try, it wasn't fun, just boring, the campaign was just tacked on. Remember that the biggest GT fans love the campaign, we didn't have online GT until recently, GT1, 2, 3 and 4 were considered the best ones, and those were not online, they focused on great campaigns.

Graphics on youtube mean nothing, GT sport looked just OK on a ps4 slim, but when I tried it on the ps4 pro it looked like a different game, way cleaner, even tough you cant see the difference on youtube.

This will be the same, a huge jump, but youtube doesn't do it justice.

I fully believe the game that will push graphics will be forza 8, but in the end we are at a point that graphics is just cleaning aliasing and little things like that. Games like Ratchet and clank already look like a pixar movie, sure they can improve it but wont be that noticeable.

Didn't they say at one point after gt5/gt6, that the campaign started to feel the same or not as interesting , and they started hyping forza campaigns and need for speed shift as the way to go? Maybe i'm wrong, maybe it was one game that had a mediocre campaign. I myself haven't haven't played forza or shift, but will campaign that gt fans are used still feel fresh, can it compete with forza or shift? In terms of feeling rewarding through progression, which is what shift got rave reviews for. 

As for forza 8, I saw the trailer and wasn't too impressed visually. The textutres and vehichles did not look as good as in gt7, or sport.  Maybe it's the art style but it doesn't look photo realistic.  I honestly can't see it topping gt7 in the visual department. PD put too much care in cars and track design.

Way too early to say which actually looks better. There is barely any FM footage to make a comparison.