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Forums - Sales Discussion - Famitsu sales: Week 21, 2021 - (May 17 - May 23)

IcaroRibeiro said:

I disagree, they absolutely needs Playstation (and PC) to truly reach mainstream audiences outside Japan. Being released on Switch only I can see DQ XII struggling to even reach DQ XI sales even if it gets several re-releases just like XI

Dragon Quest isn't a flasgship franchise outside its home market and overall JRPGs have good synergy with Playstation and other Sony systems, but more important DQ needs as much newcomers it can get. This is no Monster Hunter Rise, at least not yet, Rise sales in west was a byproduct of "World" sales and half of World sales outside Japan comes from PCs. If World was a PS4 exclusive it would have sold less than 9 million, great sales but more than 7 million behind what it sold, no wonder why even Monster Hunter Rise will be released on PCs

Edit: Another thing to consider is advertising. The worst thing to advertise in JRPGs is the turn based combat, what is easy to advertise is fancy graphics and a beautiful world full of things to explore. PS5 will provide those fancy graphics and world with very big scope, Switch will not

Jrpgs we're doing fine long before the PS platforms were even a thing, it's not just the platform that brings success it's the handling of the game. MHW didn't sell well in the west because of the platform it sold because it was the first game Capcom made a genuine effort to push in the west it's like with Nintendo and Fire Emblem Awakening.

Capcom making an effort is why World sold and that same effort is why Rise may very well hit 10m on one platform alone. DQXII doesn't need PS5 and PC to sell well it needs SE to put in the same effort Capcom.

JRPG fans do not care for flash graphics as much as other the best selling JRPG after Pokemon is now Ring Fit after all, even on the topic of scope Xenoblade has the largest scope of any JRPG series so far. JRPGS have other intricacies that fans look for. 



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Wyrdness said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I disagree, they absolutely needs Playstation (and PC) to truly reach mainstream audiences outside Japan. Being released on Switch only I can see DQ XII struggling to even reach DQ XI sales even if it gets several re-releases just like XI

Dragon Quest isn't a flasgship franchise outside its home market and overall JRPGs have good synergy with Playstation and other Sony systems, but more important DQ needs as much newcomers it can get. This is no Monster Hunter Rise, at least not yet, Rise sales in west was a byproduct of "World" sales and half of World sales outside Japan comes from PCs. If World was a PS4 exclusive it would have sold less than 9 million, great sales but more than 7 million behind what it sold, no wonder why even Monster Hunter Rise will be released on PCs

Edit: Another thing to consider is advertising. The worst thing to advertise in JRPGs is the turn based combat, what is easy to advertise is fancy graphics and a beautiful world full of things to explore. PS5 will provide those fancy graphics and world with very big scope, Switch will not

Jrpgs we're doing fine long before the PS platforms were even a thing, it's not just the platform that brings success it's the handling of the game. MHW didn't sell well in the west because of the platform it sold because it was the first game Capcom made a genuine effort to push in the west it's like with Nintendo and Fire Emblem Awakening.

Capcom making an effort is why World sold and that same effort is why Rise may very well hit 10m on one platform alone. DQXII doesn't need PS5 and PC to sell well it needs SE to put in the same effort Capcom.

JRPG fans do not care for flash graphics as much as other the best selling JRPG after Pokemon is now Ring Fit after all, even on the topic of scope Xenoblade has the largest scope of any JRPG series so far. JRPGS have other intricacies that fans look for. 

yep.

and besides, its always been NINTENDO that has been trying to bring DQ to the west.

Enix is content to sit back and enjoy its guarenteed japanese sucess.

its also nintendo thats always published it stateside as well.



Wyrdness said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I disagree, they absolutely needs Playstation (and PC) to truly reach mainstream audiences outside Japan. Being released on Switch only I can see DQ XII struggling to even reach DQ XI sales even if it gets several re-releases just like XI

Dragon Quest isn't a flasgship franchise outside its home market and overall JRPGs have good synergy with Playstation and other Sony systems, but more important DQ needs as much newcomers it can get. This is no Monster Hunter Rise, at least not yet, Rise sales in west was a byproduct of "World" sales and half of World sales outside Japan comes from PCs. If World was a PS4 exclusive it would have sold less than 9 million, great sales but more than 7 million behind what it sold, no wonder why even Monster Hunter Rise will be released on PCs

Edit: Another thing to consider is advertising. The worst thing to advertise in JRPGs is the turn based combat, what is easy to advertise is fancy graphics and a beautiful world full of things to explore. PS5 will provide those fancy graphics and world with very big scope, Switch will not

Jrpgs we're doing fine long before the PS platforms were even a thing, it's not just the platform that brings success it's the handling of the game. MHW didn't sell well in the west because of the platform it sold because it was the first game Capcom made a genuine effort to push in the west it's like with Nintendo and Fire Emblem Awakening.

Capcom making an effort is why World sold and that same effort is why Rise may very well hit 10m on one platform alone. DQXII doesn't need PS5 and PC to sell well it needs SE to put in the same effort Capcom.

JRPG fans do not care for flash graphics as much as other the best selling JRPG after Pokemon is now Ring Fit after all, even on the topic of scope Xenoblade has the largest scope of any JRPG series so far. JRPGS have other intricacies that fans look for. 

If the point was selling to JRPG fans then there is no point is trying to make DQ selling more in west, it won't sell more, period. The reason why RFA, FF and Pokemon sells well is not because they sell to JRPG fans rather because they sell to more than just JRPG fans

I disagree with you, platform choice is the most important decision a third developer needs to make before releasing a game. Your platform will significantly impact your production line as well as your sales performance. No, World would NEVER sell as much as it sold if it was PS4 exclusive, as I said over half of sales outside Japan were from PC. I don't have any idea why do you think Capcom ""effort"" in selling World outside Japan does not include the effort making the game multi-platform. "World" moved over 10 million in sales outside Japan in markets that never bothered to Monster Hunter before, do you think those sales would be the same without PC/Xbox release when data clearly shows the exact opposite? 



Dragon Quest 12 being made for PS5 would be an idiotic move, but the kind that I'd expect from a third party.

It'd sell better as a Switch game. Chuck it in 4K for PS5 if you want some bonus sales, but making PS5 the lead version when it will never have Switch's reach in Japan where Dragon Quest gets the bulk of its sales would be classic third party stupidity.



IcaroRibeiro said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

DQ12 will either be Switch exclusive or it will be Switch/Playstation multiplat.  There is a 0.0% chance that DQ12 will be a PS5 exclusive.  Sony has never given a damn about Dragon Quest, while Nintendo has been trying to sell it outside of Japan since Dragon Quest 1 (and they never seem to give up hope that it will happen one day).  Sony will be fortunate if DQ12 ends up on PS4/PS5 even as a multiplat release.  They definitely won't make some special deal with SquareEnix for exclusivity.  They'll pay for another Final Fantasy game before they'd ever consider paying for Dragon Quest.

They don't need to pay for anything. The announcement of DQ gave me vibes they are aiming to catch international audiences. Success of DQ XI rose western audience awareness towards this IP, I'm sure they will use fancy graphics and a more open world design as a way to turn DQ into mainstream audiences after all, we are not talking about a game that has only japanese appeal. The single idea of DQ being Switch exclusive makes no sense to me, if they bothered to release a Xbox version almost nobody bought why would they ditch a platform that provided ~35% of DQ XI sales even in Japan arguably the Nintendoland?

Dragon Quest XI is an anomaly.  It was the only time a mainline Dragon Quest was originally developed for two systems at once.  Usually they just put it on the most popular system in Japan.  In generation 8 this was a problem though.  Do they put it on the 3DS and have low quality graphics and lower price point like DQ9, or do they put it on the PS4 but hugely gimp their sales?  In the end they did both.  PS4 was not good enough to carry the franchise alone though, so they had to make a 3DS version for Japan only.  Japan is the main market for DQ.  They aren't going to alienate the Japanese market no matter how badly they want to sell to the rest of the world.

With the Switch there is no need for a second platform.  It's easily the preferred platform in Japan, and it's also really popular in the rest of the world.  On top of that it's always been Nintendo (and not Sony) who has wanted Dragon Quest to sell in the rest of the world.  They have been trying this since DQ1.  They made a major push (unsuccessfully) with DQ9 as well.  And if you recall when DQ11 came to the Switch it got a whole lot of marketing from Nintendo even though it was a port from another system.  They probably marketed DQ11 about as much as MH Rise, which makes no sense when MH Rise is an exclusive and DQ11 is a port of an older game.  Nintendo has always been very gung ho to get DQ to sell outside of Japan.

This notion of getting DQ to sell outside of Japan is something I've been hearing from Nintendo for decades.



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curl-6 said:

Dragon Quest 12 being made for PS5 would be an idiotic move, but the kind that I'd expect from a third party.

It'd sell better as a Switch game. Chuck it in 4K for PS5 if you want some bonus sales, but making PS5 the lead version when it will never have Switch's reach in Japan where Dragon Quest gets the bulk of its sales would be classic third party stupidity.

This assertion only holds true if you are to believe Dragon Quest popularity will be forever locked in Japan. If Capcom had this mindset Monster Hunter would never become such a WW hit

I understand you guys always pray for your favorite system get as many exclusives as possible, but let gets the facts straight: Switch is the ONLY system in the market there is severely underpowered in therms of hardware and in 2 years this will only become more clear. I'm not talking even about next/current gen, but also talking about PS4 and even mid sized PCs. The single decision of releasing a cross gen game for Xbox One and PS4 right now already rules out the standard Switch. They needed to build from the ground a version of Dragon Quest XI that is slightly weaker than the PS4 version in therms of resolution and frames, the outcome was awesome and I doubt anybody really care for those small details but they are going for Unreal Engine 5 for Dragon Quest XII strongly implying there will be a spike in graphics compared to XI that PS4 and XBONE can handle, but standard Switch shall not 

The third parties Switch is getting will be exclusives, like Monster Hunter Rise, they will sell fine enough, maybe even more than most games in a single SKU. However developers for Final Fantasy or Resident Evil will save their mainline entries for other system because they will have bigger audience specially during the cross-gen period. If the point being discussed is to turn DQ more appealing outside Japan then the next mainline DQ will need the same strategy being used for Final Fantasy and/or Resident Evil, even if it means not making Switch the lead version. They released a caped down version for 3DS aimed to Japan and it worked pretty well, it was lower budget and allowed them to keep the market share as big as possible. Not making a more hardware-demanding version for PS4/PS5/PCs is the truly idiotic move if the plan is to make Dragon Quest more appealing WW



IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

Dragon Quest 12 being made for PS5 would be an idiotic move, but the kind that I'd expect from a third party.

It'd sell better as a Switch game. Chuck it in 4K for PS5 if you want some bonus sales, but making PS5 the lead version when it will never have Switch's reach in Japan where Dragon Quest gets the bulk of its sales would be classic third party stupidity.

This assertion only holds true if you are to believe Dragon Quest popularity will be forever locked in Japan. If Capcom had this mindset Monster Hunter would never become such a WW hit

I understand you guys always pray for your favorite system get as many exclusives as possible, but let gets the facts straight: Switch is the ONLY system in the market there is severely underpowered in therms of hardware and in 2 years this will only become more clear. I'm not talking even about next/current gen, but also talking about PS4 and even mid sized PCs. The single decision of releasing a cross gen game for Xbox One and PS4 right now already rules out the standard Switch. They needed to build from the ground a version of Dragon Quest XI that is slightly weaker than the PS4 version in therms of resolution and frames, the outcome was awesome and I doubt anybody really care for those small details but they are going for Unreal Engine 5 for Dragon Quest XII strongly implying there will be a spike in graphics compared to XI that PS4 and XBONE can handle, but standard Switch shall not 

The third parties Switch is getting will be exclusives, like Monster Hunter Rise, they will sell fine enough, maybe even more than most games in a single SKU. However developers for Final Fantasy or Resident Evil will save their mainline entries for other system because they will have bigger audience specially during the cross-gen period. If the point being discussed is to turn DQ more appealing outside Japan then the next mainline DQ will need the same strategy being used for Final Fantasy and/or Resident Evil, even if it means not making Switch the lead version. They released a caped down version for 3DS aimed to Japan and it worked pretty well, it was lower budget and allowed them to keep the market share as big as possible. Not making a more hardware-demanding version for PS4/PS5/PCs is the truly idiotic move if the plan is to make Dragon Quest more appealing WW

Monster Hunter isn't analogous, the kind of series that was already gave it more potential for Western appeal. Dragon Quest has been around for nearly 40 years. It's been pushed in the West before but remains a primarily Japanese franchise, and the PS5 won't sell even half of what Switch will sell in Japan. Switch is also huge in the West.

Add to that the fact that it'd be way more costly to make a AAA PS5 game compared to a Switch game and targeting PS5 as the lead platform would quite simply be a financially poor decision.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

They don't need to pay for anything. The announcement of DQ gave me vibes they are aiming to catch international audiences. Success of DQ XI rose western audience awareness towards this IP, I'm sure they will use fancy graphics and a more open world design as a way to turn DQ into mainstream audiences after all, we are not talking about a game that has only japanese appeal. The single idea of DQ being Switch exclusive makes no sense to me, if they bothered to release a Xbox version almost nobody bought why would they ditch a platform that provided ~35% of DQ XI sales even in Japan arguably the Nintendoland?

Dragon Quest XI is an anomaly.  It was the only time a mainline Dragon Quest was originally developed for two systems at once.  Usually they just put it on the most popular system in Japan.  In generation 8 this was a problem though.  Do they put it on the 3DS and have low quality graphics and lower price point like DQ9, or do they put it on the PS4 but hugely gimp their sales?  In the end they did both.  PS4 was not good enough to carry the franchise alone though, so they had to make a 3DS version for Japan only.  Japan is the main market for DQ.  They aren't going to alienate the Japanese market no matter how badly they want to sell to the rest of the world.

With the Switch there is no need for a second platform.  It's easily the preferred platform in Japan, and it's also really popular in the rest of the world.  On top of that it's always been Nintendo (and not Sony) who has wanted Dragon Quest to sell in the rest of the world.  They have been trying this since DQ1.  They made a major push (unsuccessfully) with DQ9 as well.  And if you recall when DQ11 came to the Switch it got a whole lot of marketing from Nintendo even though it was a port from another system.  They probably marketed DQ11 about as much as MH Rise, which makes no sense when MH Rise is an exclusive and DQ11 is a port of an older game.  Nintendo has always been very gung ho to get DQ to sell outside of Japan.

This notion of getting DQ to sell outside of Japan is something I've been hearing from Nintendo for decades.

No, even with a Switch becoming the best console of all time they absolutely need a second platform if the point is to increase the IP branding.

If the point was to sell only to Japan where Xbox and PC gaming are irrelevant and PS5 software are struggling to sell 50k, then yeah, Switch is enough because japonese people play on Switch and that's about it

The point of increasing the strength of an IP is to make it available in as much system as possible, that's why even Sony is releasing Horizon on PCs, they want to increase the IP awareness and farm some coins in the process. Not releasing DQ XII on other platforms is just plain silly because we are ignoring where gamers are playing the most

Of course, Enix can be satisfied with current DQ popularity and decide they only need Japan, but looking the news about UR5 and the more darker and mature style? I doubt, my gut feelings are telling me they want a new Monster Hunter and they will need PCs and Playstations to make this work 



curl-6 said:

Monster Hunter isn't analogous, the kind of series that was already gave it more potential for Western appeal. Dragon Quest has been around for nearly 40 years. It's been pushed in the West before but remains a primarily Japanese franchise, and the PS5 won't sell even half of what Switch will sell in Japan. Switch is also huge in the West.

Add to that the fact that it'd be way more costly to make a AAA PS5 game compared to a Switch game and targeting PS5 as the lead platform would quite simply be a financially poor decision.

If you think a classic MH had potential to be a big hit in West then you don't understand why MH was popular in Japan in first place. They worked to improve MH appeal, i.e. they made fancy graphics, an easier approach to newcomers and implemented a good online multiplayer instead of relying in local portable multiplayer like japanese people appreciate

There are ways to improve Dragon Quest popularity in west, and seems like they are already making some moves towards it. I wouldn't hold an argument that this franchise can have a breakthrough hit outside its core market, I surely can see next DQ selling comfortably over 10 million if it gets a multiplat release 

The cost of a game is based in the scope of its release, not on its platform. More detailed assets indeed needs more workforce to be done, but overall the costs will be roughly similar if the game is the same just running with fancier graphics. If it was a trouble for developers then they would never release PC version of games with so many graphic options 

Unless you are thinking they will purposely release a much bigger version of the game for the PS5



IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

Monster Hunter isn't analogous, the kind of series that was already gave it more potential for Western appeal. Dragon Quest has been around for nearly 40 years. It's been pushed in the West before but remains a primarily Japanese franchise, and the PS5 won't sell even half of what Switch will sell in Japan. Switch is also huge in the West.

Add to that the fact that it'd be way more costly to make a AAA PS5 game compared to a Switch game and targeting PS5 as the lead platform would quite simply be a financially poor decision.

If you think a classic MH had potential to be a big hit in West then you don't understand why MH was popular in Japan in first place. They worked to improve MH appeal, i.e. they made fancy graphics, an easier approach to newcomers and implemented a good online multiplayer instead of relying in local portable multiplayer like japanese people appreciate

There are ways to improve Dragon Quest popularity in west, and seems like they are already making some moves towards it. I wouldn't hold an argument that this franchise can have a breakthrough hit outside its core market, I surely can see next DQ selling comfortably over 10 million if it gets a multiplat release 

The cost of a game is based in the scope of its release, not on its platform. More detailed assets indeed needs more workforce to be done, but overall the costs will be roughly similar if the game is the same just running with fancier graphics. If it was a trouble for developers then they would never release PC version of games with so many graphic options 

Unless you are thinking they will purposely release a much bigger version of the game for the PS5

They already tried a AAA Dragon Quest game built for Playstation with fancy graphics with 11, it didn't catch on in the West.

If one of the reasons for building it around PS5 is better, more detailed graphics, than that does mean substantially higher costs than building the game for Switch. 

I'm not saying it should be a Switch exclusive or not on PS/PC, but excluding the dominant platform in Japan (which is also wildly successful worldwide) from the next entry in your series that gets the bulk of its sales from Japan would be lunacy.