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Forums - Sales Discussion - Famitsu sales: Week 21, 2021 - (May 17 - May 23)

IcaroRibeiro said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Dragon Quest XI is an anomaly.  It was the only time a mainline Dragon Quest was originally developed for two systems at once.  Usually they just put it on the most popular system in Japan.  In generation 8 this was a problem though.  Do they put it on the 3DS and have low quality graphics and lower price point like DQ9, or do they put it on the PS4 but hugely gimp their sales?  In the end they did both.  PS4 was not good enough to carry the franchise alone though, so they had to make a 3DS version for Japan only.  Japan is the main market for DQ.  They aren't going to alienate the Japanese market no matter how badly they want to sell to the rest of the world.

With the Switch there is no need for a second platform.  It's easily the preferred platform in Japan, and it's also really popular in the rest of the world.  On top of that it's always been Nintendo (and not Sony) who has wanted Dragon Quest to sell in the rest of the world.  They have been trying this since DQ1.  They made a major push (unsuccessfully) with DQ9 as well.  And if you recall when DQ11 came to the Switch it got a whole lot of marketing from Nintendo even though it was a port from another system.  They probably marketed DQ11 about as much as MH Rise, which makes no sense when MH Rise is an exclusive and DQ11 is a port of an older game.  Nintendo has always been very gung ho to get DQ to sell outside of Japan.

This notion of getting DQ to sell outside of Japan is something I've been hearing from Nintendo for decades.

No, even with a Switch becoming the best console of all time they absolutely need a second platform if the point is to increase the IP branding.

If the point was to sell only to Japan where Xbox and PC gaming are irrelevant and PS5 software are struggling to sell 50k, then yeah, Switch is enough because japonese people play on Switch and that's about it

The point of increasing the strength of an IP is to make it available in as much system as possible, that's why even Sony is releasing Horizon on PCs, they want to increase the IP awareness and farm some coins in the process. Not releasing DQ XII on other platforms is just plain silly because we are ignoring where gamers are playing the most

Of course, Enix can be satisfied with current DQ popularity and decide they only need Japan, but looking the news about UR5 and the more darker and mature style? I doubt, my gut feelings are telling me they want a new Monster Hunter and they will need PCs and Playstations to make this work 

If the Switch was only selling well in Japan, I would say you have a point, but considering how it's sell very well everywhere, putting it on another console is not really necessary. It will certainly also release on PC, but getting a Playstation or even Xbox port is not guaranteed.

You mention the Horizon: Zero Dawn PC port, but you fail at the reason why: Yes, it was to increase IP awareness. But it's NOT the Horizon IP whose awareness Sony wanted to increase, rather it is to boost the awareness of the Playstation by basically telling PC players: "Yo, look what games you could get on a Playstation". So the situation is very different to what Squeenix has at hand with DQ XII.



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curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

If you think a classic MH had potential to be a big hit in West then you don't understand why MH was popular in Japan in first place. They worked to improve MH appeal, i.e. they made fancy graphics, an easier approach to newcomers and implemented a good online multiplayer instead of relying in local portable multiplayer like japanese people appreciate

There are ways to improve Dragon Quest popularity in west, and seems like they are already making some moves towards it. I wouldn't hold an argument that this franchise can have a breakthrough hit outside its core market, I surely can see next DQ selling comfortably over 10 million if it gets a multiplat release 

The cost of a game is based in the scope of its release, not on its platform. More detailed assets indeed needs more workforce to be done, but overall the costs will be roughly similar if the game is the same just running with fancier graphics. If it was a trouble for developers then they would never release PC version of games with so many graphic options 

Unless you are thinking they will purposely release a much bigger version of the game for the PS5

They already tried a AAA Dragon Quest game built for Playstation with fancy graphics with 11, it didn't catch on in the West.

If one of the reasons for building it around PS5 is better, more detailed graphics, than that does mean substantially higher costs than building the game for Switch. 

I'm not saying it should be a Switch exclusive or not on PS/PC, but excluding the dominant platform in Japan (which is also wildly successful worldwide) from the next entry in your series that gets the bulk of its sales from Japan would be lunacy.

I haven't said to exclude Switch, rather to release in every platform. If if means build essentially two games with different engines, so be it. They done it with XI and I don't think they really regret it 

Guys on this thread are craving predicting it to be Switch exclusive when they bothered releasing DQ XI definitive edition even to Xbox One, a version that I doubt saw significant sales 



Bofferbrauer2 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

No, even with a Switch becoming the best console of all time they absolutely need a second platform if the point is to increase the IP branding.

If the point was to sell only to Japan where Xbox and PC gaming are irrelevant and PS5 software are struggling to sell 50k, then yeah, Switch is enough because japonese people play on Switch and that's about it

The point of increasing the strength of an IP is to make it available in as much system as possible, that's why even Sony is releasing Horizon on PCs, they want to increase the IP awareness and farm some coins in the process. Not releasing DQ XII on other platforms is just plain silly because we are ignoring where gamers are playing the most

Of course, Enix can be satisfied with current DQ popularity and decide they only need Japan, but looking the news about UR5 and the more darker and mature style? I doubt, my gut feelings are telling me they want a new Monster Hunter and they will need PCs and Playstations to make this work 

If the Switch was only selling well in Japan, I would say you have a point, but considering how it's sell very well everywhere, putting it on another console is not really necessary. It will certainly also release on PC, but getting a Playstation or even Xbox port is not guaranteed.

You mention the Horizon: Zero Dawn PC port, but you fail at the reason why: Yes, it was to increase IP awareness. But it's NOT the Horizon IP whose awareness Sony wanted to increase, rather it is to boost the awareness of the Playstation by basically telling PC players: "Yo, look what games you could get on a Playstation". So the situation is very different to what Squeenix has at hand with DQ XII.

If it get released on PC then I don't understand why it wouldn't be released on PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series XS



IcaroRibeiro said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

If the Switch was only selling well in Japan, I would say you have a point, but considering how it's sell very well everywhere, putting it on another console is not really necessary. It will certainly also release on PC, but getting a Playstation or even Xbox port is not guaranteed.

You mention the Horizon: Zero Dawn PC port, but you fail at the reason why: Yes, it was to increase IP awareness. But it's NOT the Horizon IP whose awareness Sony wanted to increase, rather it is to boost the awareness of the Playstation by basically telling PC players: "Yo, look what games you could get on a Playstation". So the situation is very different to what Squeenix has at hand with DQ XII.

If it get released on PC then I don't understand why it wouldn't be released on PS4/PS5 and Xbox One/Series XS

PS5/XS gamers would certainly expect a big graphical increase compared to the Switch version, PC gamers... not so much.

The main problem with the PS5/XS version would be the increased cost for their version and no certainty that the investment would get returns. Of course that version would also be used for PC then, but like I said, they wouldn't have to in contrast to the next gen consoles.



IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

Monster Hunter isn't analogous, the kind of series that was already gave it more potential for Western appeal. Dragon Quest has been around for nearly 40 years. It's been pushed in the West before but remains a primarily Japanese franchise, and the PS5 won't sell even half of what Switch will sell in Japan. Switch is also huge in the West.

Add to that the fact that it'd be way more costly to make a AAA PS5 game compared to a Switch game and targeting PS5 as the lead platform would quite simply be a financially poor decision.

If you think a classic MH had potential to be a big hit in West then you don't understand why MH was popular in Japan in first place. They worked to improve MH appeal, i.e. they made fancy graphics, an easier approach to newcomers and implemented a good online multiplayer instead of relying in local portable multiplayer like japanese people appreciate

There are ways to improve Dragon Quest popularity in west, and seems like they are already making some moves towards it. I wouldn't hold an argument that this franchise can have a breakthrough hit outside its core market, I surely can see next DQ selling comfortably over 10 million if it gets a multiplat release 

The cost of a game is based in the scope of its release, not on its platform. More detailed assets indeed needs more workforce to be done, but overall the costs will be roughly similar if the game is the same just running with fancier graphics. If it was a trouble for developers then they would never release PC version of games with so many graphic options 

Unless you are thinking they will purposely release a much bigger version of the game for the PS5

Bold 1: When DQXII come out in 2023 - 2024, there will be only ps5/xbox SEX/PC and Switch. Majority sales are always from JP, but PS5 sofware sales is terrible, 10mil? Quite a big strech here.

Bold 2: Xenoblade Wii is as big as Skyrim, the scope is quite big for a 7th gen game, by your logic i guess it is more expensive than Final Fantasy XIII ps3.



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IcaroRibeiro said:

If the point was selling to JRPG fans then there is no point is trying to make DQ selling more in west, it won't sell more, period. The reason why RFA, FF and Pokemon sells well is not because they sell to JRPG fans rather because they sell to more than just JRPG fans

I disagree with you, platform choice is the most important decision a third developer needs to make before releasing a game. Your platform will significantly impact your production line as well as your sales performance. No, World would NEVER sell as much as it sold if it was PS4 exclusive, as I said over half of sales outside Japan were from PC. I don't have any idea why do you think Capcom ""effort"" in selling World outside Japan does not include the effort making the game multi-platform. "World" moved over 10 million in sales outside Japan in markets that never bothered to Monster Hunter before, do you think those sales would be the same without PC/Xbox release when data clearly shows the exact opposite? 

You know why World's sales are down to Capcom's effort and not being multiplatform? Because MH games have been multiplatform before MH3rd was on both PSP and PS3 for a start, World isn't even the first PC game either it's like the third. Fact is it was never just down to platform but effort the first two MH games were on PS2 the highest selling home console as of the moment and the games struggled to cross the 1m mark yet on PS4 World outsold both combined 3 times over because Capcom got off their ass to sell the game, before World they were content to sit on the sales in Japan.

Those games sell because actual effort is made to sell them, it's like with Octopath selling more than 2m despite being very traditional it sold that because the was a genuine effort to push it. 

Last edited by Wyrdness - on 31 May 2021

I think Tales of Arise will be an interesting case study in regards to graphical/scale investments bringing in a wider audience beyond Japan.

But people are right in saying that its not just about platform or visuals, but also the quality being offered. I'd add that beyond a game being high quality its about whether they build characters and stories that will excite and resonate with a wider audience. As a JRPG fan who rarely plays JRPGs anymore, one of the things that put me off from buying Dragon Quest XI was my impression that the world and story of the game would be fairly forgettable and generic. It also made me late to pick up Ni No Kuni 2 despite loving the art direction



IcaroRibeiro said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Dragon Quest XI is an anomaly.  It was the only time a mainline Dragon Quest was originally developed for two systems at once.  Usually they just put it on the most popular system in Japan.  In generation 8 this was a problem though.  Do they put it on the 3DS and have low quality graphics and lower price point like DQ9, or do they put it on the PS4 but hugely gimp their sales?  In the end they did both.  PS4 was not good enough to carry the franchise alone though, so they had to make a 3DS version for Japan only.  Japan is the main market for DQ.  They aren't going to alienate the Japanese market no matter how badly they want to sell to the rest of the world.

With the Switch there is no need for a second platform.  It's easily the preferred platform in Japan, and it's also really popular in the rest of the world.  On top of that it's always been Nintendo (and not Sony) who has wanted Dragon Quest to sell in the rest of the world.  They have been trying this since DQ1.  They made a major push (unsuccessfully) with DQ9 as well.  And if you recall when DQ11 came to the Switch it got a whole lot of marketing from Nintendo even though it was a port from another system.  They probably marketed DQ11 about as much as MH Rise, which makes no sense when MH Rise is an exclusive and DQ11 is a port of an older game.  Nintendo has always been very gung ho to get DQ to sell outside of Japan.

This notion of getting DQ to sell outside of Japan is something I've been hearing from Nintendo for decades.

No, even with a Switch becoming the best console of all time they absolutely need a second platform if the point is to increase the IP branding.

If the point was to sell only to Japan where Xbox and PC gaming are irrelevant and PS5 software are struggling to sell 50k, then yeah, Switch is enough because japonese people play on Switch and that's about it

The point of increasing the strength of an IP is to make it available in as much system as possible, that's why even Sony is releasing Horizon on PCs, they want to increase the IP awareness and farm some coins in the process. Not releasing DQ XII on other platforms is just plain silly because we are ignoring where gamers are playing the most

Of course, Enix can be satisfied with current DQ popularity and decide they only need Japan, but looking the news about UR5 and the more darker and mature style? I doubt, my gut feelings are telling me they want a new Monster Hunter and they will need PCs and Playstations to make this work 

DQXII could turn out to be multiplat.  I am not ruling that out.  It could also be Switch exclusive.  Nintendo is willing to moneyhat DQXII.  Nintendo seems to love Dragon Quest like it is one of their own IP.  What will definitely not happen is PS5 exclusivity.  Sony is not willing to moneyhat DQXII.  They will make deals for more Final Fantasy games before they ever make a deal for Dragon Quest.

What you need to realize is that marketing Dragon Quest to the West and Nintendo exclusivity actually go hand in hand.  It may not seem logical to you, but this is the line we've been fed since DQ1.  Nintendo gave out free copies of DQ1 with a subscription to Nintendo Power.  Every time I've ever heard of marketing DQ to the West it's always had a strong Nintendo backing.  This goes back to the very origins of the series.



IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

Dragon Quest 12 being made for PS5 would be an idiotic move, but the kind that I'd expect from a third party.

It'd sell better as a Switch game. Chuck it in 4K for PS5 if you want some bonus sales, but making PS5 the lead version when it will never have Switch's reach in Japan where Dragon Quest gets the bulk of its sales would be classic third party stupidity.

This assertion only holds true if you are to believe Dragon Quest popularity will be forever locked in Japan. If Capcom had this mindset Monster Hunter would never become such a WW hit

I understand you guys always pray for your favorite system get as many exclusives as possible, but let gets the facts straight: Switch is the ONLY system in the market there is severely underpowered in therms of hardware and in 2 years this will only become more clear. I'm not talking even about next/current gen, but also talking about PS4 and even mid sized PCs. The single decision of releasing a cross gen game for Xbox One and PS4 right now already rules out the standard Switch. They needed to build from the ground a version of Dragon Quest XI that is slightly weaker than the PS4 version in therms of resolution and frames, the outcome was awesome and I doubt anybody really care for those small details but they are going for Unreal Engine 5 for Dragon Quest XII strongly implying there will be a spike in graphics compared to XI that PS4 and XBONE can handle, but standard Switch shall not 

The third parties Switch is getting will be exclusives, like Monster Hunter Rise, they will sell fine enough, maybe even more than most games in a single SKU. However developers for Final Fantasy or Resident Evil will save their mainline entries for other system because they will have bigger audience specially during the cross-gen period. If the point being discussed is to turn DQ more appealing outside Japan then the next mainline DQ will need the same strategy being used for Final Fantasy and/or Resident Evil, even if it means not making Switch the lead version. They released a caped down version for 3DS aimed to Japan and it worked pretty well, it was lower budget and allowed them to keep the market share as big as possible. Not making a more hardware-demanding version for PS4/PS5/PCs is the truly idiotic move if the plan is to make Dragon Quest more appealing WW

So the third party sell better on switch x ps4, but will launch in ps5 exclusive because of no rational reason. The instal base, the Japanese market dominance, the worldwide success. This not count, only count the PS5, because no rational reason.

Switch in 2023 maybe have 140+M instal base and the ps5 only maybe 55M, why I will lose 140 million user base and all local market?

It's the dumbest decision ever.

Multiplatform is a rational decision.(PC, Switch, PS5, Xbox)

or Switch exclusive.

the rest is the Nagoshi craziness realm. 

Last edited by Agente42 - on 31 May 2021

It makes sense to make DQXII for Switch and then just port it to PS5. PS5 exclusive would be a terrible decision. Switch exclusive would work fine as that is where the majority of sales will come from and DQ doesn't use hyper-realistic graphics so Switch won't hold it back, but by porting it to the PS5 they'll make a decent amount extra in the west so it makes sense to just do both. Switch version will already be 4k on the new Switch model so they don't even need to do any enhancements on the PS5 version, just a straight port.