60is nice, and is essential for certain games where response time is key.
otherwise, 30 is just fine. there is a reason movies are at 24.
the most important part though, is that the framerate should be locked 95% of the time.

No I meant the notion that 30fps games are somehow objectively more complex than all 60fps games in known history, like claiming BotW>any game with any complex mechanics or system.

Like I'm not talking about getting up to 60fps or ms, I'm on about sheer complexity itself. Like I look at how poorly the Switch handled Sim style games, and yet PC handles that fine at 60fps, and it is largely a CPU bound game, even last gen had issues running cities Skylines.

I just find the reasoning behind people liking 30fps to claiming it's superior or better is just being plain silly.

Is anyone doing this? Obviously relative to hardware and the optimization of a game, a 30fps game can do things a 60fps cannot. Like 60fps Breath of the Wild would have to sacrifice things which make it what it is. Whether thats density of the world, less interactive objects etc if it could just be 60fps without any sacrifices Nintendo would have made it 60fps lol

I see people doing it all the time on Twitter. Just because you do not see this does not make it a non reality. I've even seen folks claim 30fps lends to greater visual clarity, yet that is not the case.

You seem to think you have to sacrifice for 60fps, when really it is the closed box that has to sacrifice, the company has to sacrifice, but not the rest of the industry, because we see things being pushed forward.

Look at BotW, a landscape that has little in terms of complexity, yet it relies on player agency and mechanics to fill that world instead and at 30fps.

DO you think Nintendo has some kind of focus on higher end hw?. No, they have abandoned such a focus since the GC era, as made evident by Sony's rising popularity and cheaper built system, and Nintendo has been doing that since, making sure that they can make bank, even if said system doesn't set the world on fire (the Wii U still made them a profit, despite it not being anywhere as popular as the Switch as one such example, and it too had it's own sacrifices to make). 

I don't think some of you here truly understand the difference between what a closed box can do and what can actually be done without a closed box. You seem to be stuck near permanently in the thinking of a closed system, ignoring what is being done outside. I've noticed some of you will mention some good things being done, but "sacrifices were made" will be mentioned, yet not the sacrifices a closed and budget made box has to make, nearly 99% of it's time. 

Again, I find the notion that trying to ascertain 30fps games being far more objectively complex than 60fps based games is nothing but a folly.

For me personally, anything below 60 truly is unacceptable.

Um, I never claimed those things.

On fixed hardware like consoles though, a 30fps game will have twice as much processing time per frame for not just the GPU but also the CPU, allowing for more computation to be put into things like world simulation, physics, AI, etc.

Its way more important than ray tracing and 4k .when things get intense, any kind of fram rate dip and jerikiness is immersion breaking. A lot of games aren't fully realized when experienced in 30fps. But you can get away without ray tracing and resolution under 4k.

And yet we have plenty of games where said physics aren't even utilised as much, and then of course there's the fact that we're still stuck with rather poor AI in a plethora of games. 

It may not mean all games will take advantage of the potential, but that doesn't change the fact that as long as we're talking about fixed hardware, and consoles sure aren't going anywhere, you're effectively halving your CPU as well as GPU budget by choosing 60fps over 30. As such, whether it's on Switch or PS5, a game can't be as computationally complex at 60fps as it could be at 30.

Yes but we are still seeing said fixed hw not being fully utilised for things such as AI, which I need remind you, I wish to see pushed forward, instead of us having the same typical AI that hides behind walls and muttering one liners or obviously running up to you or having to cheat just to stand a chance against you, and 30fps isn't doing it any favours at all.

Have you seen actual benchmarks between 30 and 60fps for PC hw, for the same games?.

I disagree with the very notion that 30fps allows for objective complexity over 60. I know full well you're fine with lesser this or 30fps that, but trying to ascertain that what you dabble in is superior (yes you are pushing the notion) is nonsense, when the industry is showing us it is not 100% that way (otherwise games would be 30fps for all of time, and you know that's how it would go, if your logic was objectively sound and fully utilised across the board). 

I'm surprised you haven't gone over this with Pem or CGI as in in depth study already, let alone reaching out to DF.