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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox is becoming the unsung hero of this generation

smroadkill15 said:
fauzman said:

I read your post to justify your reasoning for MS being the best this gen, and it seems to boil down to Gamepass, Gamepass, Gamepass........ and free cloud saves.

While I do applaud MS for how they have gone about developing this ecosystem, I have no doubt that at the beginning this was simply a way for themtoake their console more attractive when they were getting hammered by Sony. Everything they have done since the beginning of the last gen (trying to cater to gamers, more honesty from MS heads, buying of game studios, japanese buy-in) is a reaction to how much
criticism they suffered initially. And i dont see any they have done so far this gen that is going out of their way to benefit gamers.

I mean, of course it's a reaction to how things went this past generation, but this is what all these companies do. I'm fully aware MS is a company trying to get consumers to buy their product just like every other console maker out there, and guess what, I'm happy about it because they are trying to compete for my money by doing whatever they can to give consumers a reason to buy into their ecosystem. 

I think commitment to BC, smart delivery, and other added quality of life features (FPS boost) show MS is going out of their way to benefit gamers more than Game Pass is because these are things MS doesn't necessarily need to do for consumers to buy an Xbox, and the general consumer likely doesn't know about these features. I highly doubt the BC team brings in any kind of revenue, but they are still committed to it.  

While i do agree that these features benefitted gamers, i really dont see these as being any sort of altruistic measures. We know that he XBone was lacking on the games front and we also know that this ia a difficult gap to fill in. MS's answer while waiting for its game studios to put out games was to polish and improve on all the other features it could to make it more attractive. They have clearly done that both last gen and this gen. But i still wouldnt call them the best. 

It is something similar to what sony did in the ps3 era when they were trying to win back gamers. Though they went down the route of authorising a whole bunch of experimental games.

IMO, Sony's Play at Home giveaway is more laudable as it is giving away free games that no one expected or even asked for. While most of these were pretty meh (or PSVR TITLES), this is a clear case of them doing something for nothing. Dont get me wrong - I dont necessarily think sony deserve the title of best this gen, but i also think neither MS (or nintendo) deserve it either.. YET. 



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I dunno, I really don't like what Microsoft are doing. I've never been a fan of replacing one's collection with a game as a service, but more and more it's clear that's like 90% of what Microsoft is doing. Sure, it's 'good for the consumer' from a strict dollars to title ratio, but it takes a lot of control out of the hands of consumers/gamers. I'd much rather pay more for games I like and control which games I buy than pay a monthly fee for a list of games I don't control. I know there are a LOT of games on the service (Same as PSNow) and there should be plenty of variety to pick and choose, but I've always seen this sort of games-as-a-service model as just another step in them trying to wrest control from their consumers.

They forced online gaming on consoles to be a thing but they demanded payment when their competition wasn't doing so (PC and PS2 and Dreamcast, to an extent), and look at the Industry now. Everyone charges for it. They wanted to force everyone to be always-online for the sake of DRM, but people hated it. They wanted to restrict the use of used games, and people hated it so much that their major competitor made a joke out of it. But this? This is just another way to get the same thing. They're still controlling what you play, beholding you to their online services and making sure EVERYONE pays THEM. Conspiracy theory? maybe (let';s be honest, almost certainly), but it's the same thing in the end. the goal of forcing their customers to be online and to not trade/sell used games was always there, they just found a way to make it palatable to the gaming public and they did so by copying Netflix.

Honestly, I won't participate. I don't think what they're doing is good, long term, but I do know that enough people like it that it doesn't matter what I think. I resist this change, because I think it's bad, just like I won't support games like Anthem, or I won't buy into loot boxes or microtransactions or F2P Wankery. I know that's the direction the industry is going whether I like it or not, but I do not like it and I won't participate. Hell, back with their early Xbone games, weren;'t they one of the leaders in pushing microtransactions and Pay to Win mechanics in their games?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJBlWYqVQbQ

(Obviously, take this with a grain of salt. Jim Stephanie Sterling does tend to go overboard a lot but a lot of what he says here is well-supported and well-argued.)

microsoft are not the heroes people think they are, they're just another corporation trying time and time again to change the industry in ways that take control from gamers and put more control and money in their pockets by eliminating the chance that anyone could game for free or without sending them money. and 'unsung' is hilarious, especially on this forum. Can't go a day without someone extolling the (admittedly impressive) virtues of gamepass and how Microsoft is making the world a better place by...not having exclusives (because then...customers can chose what console they want? it's a weird argument and goes opposed to the whole 'healthy competition' argument I hear).

Oh, and @AngryLittleAlchemist is right. Forza Horizon fucks hard and continues to be a great game but it has been a whole generation since Halo or Gears was in any way influential or significant. Halo 1-3 and Reach are all genuine classics (I still don't like them but I'm not a fool). Halo 4 and 5 are good but not great games. Gears 1-3 are all huge leaps and fantastic games, but 4 and 5 are good but not great. Forza has been crummy most of the Xbox One's generation (though Horizon is great). outside of those franchises, what else has Xbox even got? They really aren't all that culturally relevant anymore. The die-hard fans stick around, brand loyalty is a powerful drug, and the console DOES have more raw power than its competitor, but I can't help but wonder how the hell anyone sees their latest offering as being innovative. It's got the same controller, the same UI, and the same feel of the Xbox One, it's just more powerful and has resume-states. How is that innovative compared to the Switch's console/handheld hybrid or PS5's far superior controller features.

I don't understand how Xbox is a hero of anything. IT's a perfectly fine, competent console that doesn't do a good job selling itself. I don't see how people think that the things its doing are particularly impressive or groundbreaking or in any way revolutionary. I'm just aggressively indifferent to it. It exists, it doesn't have any egregious flaws like the Xbox One had...but by all means it's just a more powerful Xbox One, while its competition bring innovation and games.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

^Xbox is obviously not a real hero, they're a company like all the others. I'm using it as a figure of speech to point out that Xbox is doing quite a bit of consumer friendly moves that are being overlooked. I'm not sure how an optional service like Game Pass is taking control from a consumer. Everything on Game Pass can be bought separately, and until that day comes that it can't, then that argument is void.
Constantly bringing up the Xbox One faults as an excuse to not trust them anymore is the same as only looking at the ps3/WiiU issues and nothing else. Get over it or don't, I don't really care.
"They forced online gaming" lol. I guess offering a superior service and revolutionizing console online gaming is terrible. Online gaming was coming one way or the other, Xbox was just the 1st to make it big. Look at xbox live and PSN during the 6th and 7th gen. Xbox was superior in every which way and once Sony started charging for online they were able to catch up. You think people would prefer to have free PSN instead of what it is now? No way.
Which one of their early X1 games were they pushing pay2win mechanics? Nothing comes to mind unless you are thinking of KI, which was not pay2win at all.
You're conspiracy theory is just what it is or they wouldn't have dropped Gold from F2P and have free enhancements for all their games, plus 3rd party. Sony and even Nintendo(which they constantly get passes) do more to nickel and dime consumers or do shady moves than Xbox does right now, but lets ignore that part because Xbox was the bad guy last gen.



smroadkill15 said:

^Xbox is obviously not a real hero, they're a company like all the others. I'm using it as a figure of speech to point out that Xbox is doing quite a bit of consumer friendly moves that are being overlooked. I'm not sure how an optional service like Game Pass is taking control from a consumer. Everything on Game Pass can be bought separately, and until that day comes that it can't, then that argument is void.
Constantly bringing up the Xbox One faults as an excuse to not trust them anymore is the same as only looking at the ps3/WiiU issues and nothing else. Get over it or don't, I don't really care.
"They forced online gaming" lol. I guess offering a superior service and revolutionizing console online gaming is terrible. Online gaming was coming one way or the other, Xbox was just the 1st to make it big. Look at xbox live and PSN during the 6th and 7th gen. Xbox was superior in every which way and once Sony started charging for online they were able to catch up. You think people would prefer to have free PSN instead of what it is now? No way.
Which one of their early X1 games were they pushing pay2win mechanics? Nothing comes to mind unless you are thinking of KI, which was not pay2win at all.
You're conspiracy theory is just what it is or they wouldn't have dropped Gold from F2P and have free enhancements for all their games, plus 3rd party. Sony and even Nintendo(which they constantly get passes for doing shady practices) do more to nickel and dime consumers than Xbox does right now, but lets ignore that part because Xbox was the bad guy last gen.

Honestly I wouldn't have bothered with a response, there's a strong core group of people that think MS will always be evil/greedy and never should have joined the console business.

Sony was doing MTX before Xbox, why aren't they saying Sony made it an industry standard? Because apparently Xbox did with paying online. You can find the hypocrisy pretty damn quick when you go point by point.

Thankfully, if you look at forums less obsessed with Sales and Fanboyism like Resetera, you see Xbox getting a fair amount of props for doing some very consumer friendly stuff. 



smroadkill15 said:

Fast forward to current generation, Xbox has been making all the right moves. I think it's safe to assume Xbox has become the most consumer friendly between the 3 console manufactures. Several examples include:

Xbox has the widest range of BC games of any system reach back to the 6th gen, and they are committed to adding more BC titles in the future.
Have been adding FPS boost to select titles, and as of today have 97 titles that enable that feature. 
Game Pass continues to grow, and offers the ability to play hundreds of games on it's platform. Many of which are newer titles, and 1st party games get added day 1. It's the best value in gaming. 
Offer cloud saves without any kind of paywall. 
Offer multiple ways of playing games via Cloud, PC, and Console, and accessing your save progress on any device is seamless. 

What about the 1st party games? Well, there is still work to be done. With Xbox now having 22 1st party studios(23 if you count XGP), they out number any other console maker by a wide margin, but it hasn't shown yet. With Halo Infinite delayed, Gears Tactics was the only 1st party game to play at launch, and there hasn't been much since then except for a few 3rd party exclusives. But for those who have a Series X|S, most will agree Game Pass has filled that void for now. With that said, It's only a matter of time before the games start dropping, and once they do, it's going to be hard for consumers to overlook.

I completely disagree with that.

I think if we're going to look at the moves and reasons Xbox is being 'overlooked' we have to look at the PR and advertising prior to and during launch as well.

This included both of their heavily hyped showcases. One, which was predominantly third party games that showed off no "next gen" graphics or features, and then one of the most bizarre flagship reveals in the entire history of gaming - a decidedly rough looking Halo Infinite that was subsequently delayed. 

After the initial reveal of the Series X, the powerful hardware was given glowing reviews from the media and at an amateur level across social media channels, youtube etc. MS had shown their cards, and it looked like they had an ace. This was their moment to capitalize. 

They had some significant momentum building for the Series X. What followed was poorly executed by MS, and consumers became aware that they they didn't really have the software ready for the console. This was then followed by the revelation that not only were early multiplatform games not running significantly better on the most powerful console in the world, they were actually running better on the weaker PS5.

In essence, MS looked like they had the fastest, prized horse at the gate, then the gun fired and the horse came out with a limp. 

Features like BC and Cloud saves don't really push hardware. They're nice to have, but they're not moving units and swaying gamers over one console or the other. The vast majority don't even know the differences of these features between the consoles.

The term overlook is a failure to notice. I believe consumers have noticed the Series X. Early sales seem to be strong, but I think had MS made better moves, the Series X would have been riding much more momentum at this point. 



 

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ice said:

Honestly I wouldn't have bothered with a response, there's a strong core group of people that think MS will always be evil/greedy and never should have joined the console business.

Sony was doing MTX before Xbox, why aren't they saying Sony made it an industry standard? Because apparently Xbox did with paying online. You can find the hypocrisy pretty damn quick when you go point by point.

Thankfully, if you look at forums less obsessed with Sales and Fanboyism like Resetera, you see Xbox getting a fair amount of props for doing some very consumer friendly stuff. 

What game was that?

MS were pitching the idea of microtransactions to publishers in early 2005. They put it in Kameo, Perfect Dark and Project Gotham as a proof of concept to developers. Bethesda was the first to jump in on the Microsoft idea and the infamous $2.50 horse armour became a reality. 



 

smroadkill15 said:

^Xbox is obviously not a real hero, they're a company like all the others. I'm using it as a figure of speech to point out that Xbox is doing quite a bit of consumer friendly moves that are being overlooked. I'm not sure how an optional service like Game Pass is taking control from a consumer. Everything on Game Pass can be bought separately, and until that day comes that it can't, then that argument is void.
Constantly bringing up the Xbox One faults as an excuse to not trust them anymore is the same as only looking at the ps3/WiiU issues and nothing else. Get over it or don't, I don't really care.
"They forced online gaming" lol. I guess offering a superior service and revolutionizing console online gaming is terrible. Online gaming was coming one way or the other, Xbox was just the 1st to make it big. Look at xbox live and PSN during the 6th and 7th gen. Xbox was superior in every which way and once Sony started charging for online they were able to catch up. You think people would prefer to have free PSN instead of what it is now? No way.
Which one of their early X1 games were they pushing pay2win mechanics? Nothing comes to mind unless you are thinking of KI, which was not pay2win at all.
You're conspiracy theory is just what it is or they wouldn't have dropped Gold from F2P and have free enhancements for all their games, plus 3rd party. Sony and even Nintendo(which they constantly get passes) do more to nickel and dime consumers or do shady moves than Xbox does right now, but lets ignore that part because Xbox was the bad guy last gen.

I did not experience a superior online service on 360, in fact I cancelled Live Gold over the poor performance and all the trouble I had with it. 90% of the online matches I tried in Test Drive Unlimited resulted in incompatible NAT errors. The headset had a terrible echo and poor sound quality, I couldn't understand what most people were saying and stuff just kept echo'ing around. I bought another headset, same thing. It worked on XBox, no clue what happened on 360.

After I cancelled live gold I got into GT5 online, played it for many months without any issues. Same with Resistance 2 co-op. Always just worked. I never looked back to live Gold, MS lost me there. Also all the ads plastered over the new dashboard were a pita and when you had the 360 offline you got empty squares all over the UI. To me it was the inferior online experience.

Yes people would prefer free online. MS also tried to introduce paid online to PC, it did not work. They might try again when GP gets big, or simply add it into the cost of game pass at some point when they get enough people in the locked windows store ecosystem.



SvennoJ said:
smroadkill15 said:

^Xbox is obviously not a real hero, they're a company like all the others. I'm using it as a figure of speech to point out that Xbox is doing quite a bit of consumer friendly moves that are being overlooked. I'm not sure how an optional service like Game Pass is taking control from a consumer. Everything on Game Pass can be bought separately, and until that day comes that it can't, then that argument is void.
Constantly bringing up the Xbox One faults as an excuse to not trust them anymore is the same as only looking at the ps3/WiiU issues and nothing else. Get over it or don't, I don't really care.
"They forced online gaming" lol. I guess offering a superior service and revolutionizing console online gaming is terrible. Online gaming was coming one way or the other, Xbox was just the 1st to make it big. Look at xbox live and PSN during the 6th and 7th gen. Xbox was superior in every which way and once Sony started charging for online they were able to catch up. You think people would prefer to have free PSN instead of what it is now? No way.
Which one of their early X1 games were they pushing pay2win mechanics? Nothing comes to mind unless you are thinking of KI, which was not pay2win at all.
You're conspiracy theory is just what it is or they wouldn't have dropped Gold from F2P and have free enhancements for all their games, plus 3rd party. Sony and even Nintendo(which they constantly get passes) do more to nickel and dime consumers or do shady moves than Xbox does right now, but lets ignore that part because Xbox was the bad guy last gen.

I did not experience a superior online service on 360, in fact I cancelled Live Gold over the poor performance and all the trouble I had with it. 90% of the online matches I tried in Test Drive Unlimited resulted in incompatible NAT errors. The headset had a terrible echo and poor sound quality, I couldn't understand what most people were saying and stuff just kept echo'ing around. I bought another headset, same thing. It worked on XBox, no clue what happened on 360.

After I cancelled live gold I got into GT5 online, played it for many months without any issues. Same with Resistance 2 co-op. Always just worked. I never looked back to live Gold, MS lost me there. Also all the ads plastered over the new dashboard were a pita and when you had the 360 offline you got empty squares all over the UI. To me it was the inferior online experience.

Yes people would prefer free online. MS also tried to introduce paid online to PC, it did not work. They might try again when GP gets big, or simply add it into the cost of game pass at some point when they get enough people in the locked windows store ecosystem.

So you're example of Xbox live not being as good was a 3rd party game and the headset? You didn't play Halo 3, Gears of war, Shadowrun, Forza? Halo 3 population numbers trounced any 1st party game on PSN, and Xbox was able to keep those services up with hardly any issues. Xbox live brought the feature of party chat, Cloud saves, made dedicated services a common place on consoles, and at least it included a headset. Shit, I would take the Xbox 360 mic over the Ps4 one Sony packed in with the console. PSN was subject to going offline more frequently, getting hacked, DDoSed, and was even hacked and brought offline for roughly a month or so. Nothing on that scale happened on Xbox live. Many 1st party games on the 360 are still online to this day. How many 1st party PSN games are still online? 

Now adays both services are roughly the same. I do not recall MS trying to make paid online for PC, and if they did they clearly learned quickly it wasn't going to work, and there is no way in hell they would try this now. So you are trying to make a 'what if' statement with nothing to back it up? Okay...



I have been with Sony since PS1 and this time I made the switch to XSX. I will get a PS5 at some point definitely but most likely only once they released a revised hardware as the size and looks of the PS5 are just retarded. Sony does not have interesting games at this time, only Demon's Souls and Miles Morales. And it will take some time for their big hitters to arrive.
In the meantime the XSX is a much better option due to gamepass and improved performance on older games in case you are into it (I am).
So for 2021 and 2022 I think an XSX or XSS is easily the best, and onwards PS5 will catch up with it's great game library. I think Xbox fate will be decided by Q4 this year and Q1 next year.
If Halo Infinite and Starfield can't move more hardware units and create steam for microsoft's next exclusives then I think the war will be lost by a very large margin again, at least in terms of hardware. That does not mean Microsoft game division cannot be very successful and lucrative even losing for Sony by a 2/1 ratio.



Dallinor said:
ice said:

Honestly I wouldn't have bothered with a response, there's a strong core group of people that think MS will always be evil/greedy and never should have joined the console business.

Sony was doing MTX before Xbox, why aren't they saying Sony made it an industry standard? Because apparently Xbox did with paying online. You can find the hypocrisy pretty damn quick when you go point by point.

Thankfully, if you look at forums less obsessed with Sales and Fanboyism like Resetera, you see Xbox getting a fair amount of props for doing some very consumer friendly stuff. 

What game was that?

MS were pitching the idea of microtransactions to publishers in early 2005. They put it in Kameo, Perfect Dark and Project Gotham as a proof of concept to developers. Bethesda was the first to jump in on the Microsoft idea and the infamous $2.50 horse armour became a reality. 

If you’re bringing up tracks and maps from Perfect Dark and PGR, then the answer to your question is SOCOM II on PlayStation 2, though IIRC they required you to buy a magazine to get them, very Amiibo like. They also pioneered the online pass with a SOCOM game IIRC.

Moral of the story is these are companies who first and foremost want your money.