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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Political Spectrum quiz




Enjoy. Right where I was 13 years ago when I started voting.



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Yeah free speech is more of an authoritarian/libertarian thing than a left/right thing.

I fall somewhere in the middle on it.

On the one hand, I don't like the far left's increasingly harassing those who don't share their views and using "I'm offended by that" as a way to try to shut down differences of opinion.

On the other hand, free speech does not mean freedom from accountability. If I were to start openly preaching that "black people are subhuman and women shouldn't have the right to vote" social media platforms or my job would be right to deplatform/fire me respectively if they don't want to be associated with that kind of rubbish.

I mean, one could argue that talking on the phone is free speech, but what if the conversation I'm having it hiring a hitman to kill someone? I may not have pulled the trigger myself, just exercising my "freedom of speech", but I am still responsible for the resulting murder.



curl-6 said:

Yeah free speech is more of an authoritarian/libertarian thing than a left/right thing.

I fall somewhere in the middle on it.

On the one hand, I don't like the far left's increasingly harassing those who don't share their views and using "I'm offended by that" as a way to try to shut down differences of opinion.

On the other hand, free speech does not mean freedom from accountability. If I were to start openly preaching that "black people are subhuman and women shouldn't have the right to vote" social media platforms or my job would be right to deplatform/fire me respectively if they don't want to be associated with that kind of rubbish.

I mean, one could argue that talking on the phone is free speech, but what if the conversation I'm having it hiring a hitman to kill someone? I may not have pulled the trigger myself, just exercising my "freedom of speech", but I am still responsible for the resulting murder.

First of all, I agree partially. I want to go in more detail on some points or put a bit of a different perspective.

Hiring a hitman is a crime, and we can agree that platform holders should not support crimes. It is basically as simple as that. The current blocking of Trump and Trump fans at least partially falls into that basket, as they were inciting violence.

The problem I have with that, that I don't see a consistent line or rule, just some decision the company makes. That is more along the line you say above, if someone has the right not to be associated with that rubbish. These are profit oriented companies, it is possible to pressure them. Without clear rules about what they disassociate from, they could next be pressured by Creationists to remove content about evolution. Or content creators that talk against neoliberalism. I do fear that quite a bit.



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Another problem with this grid is that authoritarian and libertarian are both loaded terms and not opposites of one another.

Many people take "libertarian" to mean unfettered laissez-faire/neoliberal capitalist economics - which is a fundamentally authoritarian so long as people within those structures depend on wages and insurance plans for survival and are beholden to contracts; a CEO without red tape is therefore no different from a mini-dictator. Anti-authoritarian measures to regulate the power of corporations are also anti-libertarian. Laws which prevent corporate monopolization are also anti-authoritarian and anti-Libertarian.

The opposite of authoritarianism is not libertarianism, it's anarchism.



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Jumpin said:

Another problem with this grid is that authoritarian and libertarian are both loaded terms and not opposites of one another.

Many people take "libertarian" to mean unfettered laissez-faire/neoliberal capitalist economics - which is a fundamentally authoritarian so long as people within those structures depend on wages and insurance plans for survival and are beholden to contracts; a CEO without red tape is therefore no different from a mini-dictator. Anti-authoritarian measures to regulate the power of corporations are also anti-libertarian. Laws which prevent corporate monopolization are also anti-authoritarian and anti-Libertarian.

The opposite of authoritarianism is not libertarianism, it's anarchism.

Historically, "libertarian" was a synonym for anarchism or the libertarian branch of socialism. In most places it is still used that way, and even in the United States where right-wing liberalism has appropriated the "libertarian" label to an extent that older sense is also still used. 

The first "libertarian" was Joseph Dejacque an early communist anarchist who used the word to circumvent anti-sedition laws in France which prohibited the use of "anarchist." 



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Jumpin said:

Another problem with this grid is that authoritarian and libertarian are both loaded terms and not opposites of one another.

Many people take "libertarian" to mean unfettered laissez-faire/neoliberal capitalist economics - which is a fundamentally authoritarian so long as people within those structures depend on wages and insurance plans for survival and are beholden to contracts; a CEO without red tape is therefore no different from a mini-dictator. Anti-authoritarian measures to regulate the power of corporations are also anti-libertarian. Laws which prevent corporate monopolization are also anti-authoritarian and anti-Libertarian.

The opposite of authoritarianism is not libertarianism, it's anarchism.

That's only in the American context where the right wing has coopted the term. Historically, libertarianism is exactly the opposite if libertarianism



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Jumpin said:

Another problem with this grid is that authoritarian and libertarian are both loaded terms and not opposites of one another.

Many people take "libertarian" to mean unfettered laissez-faire/neoliberal capitalist economics - which is a fundamentally authoritarian so long as people within those structures depend on wages and insurance plans for survival and are beholden to contracts; a CEO without red tape is therefore no different from a mini-dictator. Anti-authoritarian measures to regulate the power of corporations are also anti-libertarian. Laws which prevent corporate monopolization are also anti-authoritarian and anti-Libertarian.

The opposite of authoritarianism is not libertarianism, it's anarchism.

I think you completely misunderstood authoritarianism. It says right in the name that it's about authority. Authority comes through a governing body and laws. Corporations are not authorities. However libertarianism can lead to authoritarianism when corporations become powerful enough to replace or usurp any other authority. We're not at that dystopian point yet even though it might feel that way sometimes.



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vivster said:
Jumpin said:

Another problem with this grid is that authoritarian and libertarian are both loaded terms and not opposites of one another.

Many people take "libertarian" to mean unfettered laissez-faire/neoliberal capitalist economics - which is a fundamentally authoritarian so long as people within those structures depend on wages and insurance plans for survival and are beholden to contracts; a CEO without red tape is therefore no different from a mini-dictator. Anti-authoritarian measures to regulate the power of corporations are also anti-libertarian. Laws which prevent corporate monopolization are also anti-authoritarian and anti-Libertarian.

The opposite of authoritarianism is not libertarianism, it's anarchism.

I think you completely misunderstood authoritarianism. It says right in the name that it's about authority. Authority comes through a governing body and laws. Corporations are not authorities. However libertarianism can lead to authoritarianism when corporations become powerful enough to replace or usurp any other authority. We're not at that dystopian point yet even though it might feel that way sometimes.

I would disagree with this. Corporations are a sort of authority and the small l libertarians of the US are more authoritarian than they think.



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Eagle367 said:
vivster said:

I think you completely misunderstood authoritarianism. It says right in the name that it's about authority. Authority comes through a governing body and laws. Corporations are not authorities. However libertarianism can lead to authoritarianism when corporations become powerful enough to replace or usurp any other authority. We're not at that dystopian point yet even though it might feel that way sometimes.

I would disagree with this. Corporations are a sort of authority and the small l libertarians of the US are more authoritarian than they think.

Corporations do not possess the kind of authority that is used to define authoritarianism.

US libertarians or the people who call themselves that are a different breed, it doesn't really matter what those authoritarians want to call themselves. I mean they're also calling themselves patriots and we know that isn't true.

Just like how US liberal democrats are barely centrists instead of the leftists they pretend to be or others call them.



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vivster said:
Eagle367 said:

I would disagree with this. Corporations are a sort of authority and the small l libertarians of the US are more authoritarian than they think.

Corporations do not possess the kind of authority that is used to define authoritarianism.

US libertarians or the people who call themselves that are a different breed, it doesn't really matter what those authoritarians want to call themselves. I mean they're also calling themselves patriots and we know that isn't true.

Just like how US liberal democrats are barely centrists instead of the leftists they pretend to be or others call them.

I would say the workplace is a very important part of everyday life for many people so they do have the kind of authority on each of their microscales to be authoritarian. Hell they are authoritarian by virtue of their structure aka owner, board, manager, workers, etc. 



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