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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS5 vs Series X performance - A dev opinion

DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:
I expect the differences to be minimal at best. People worry too much about power wars. Games matter far more.

Yep. Games matter more no doubt.

I posted the interview because that may help explain a little why we are seeing the PS5 advantage on the start of the gen (seems like SDK was debunked), and that sure it can improve along the gen with better utilization of the CU advantage of Xbox. But yep in the end for consumer themselves the differences won't be easily perceived.

I have no idea what SDK references.  Either way, I don't get too excited with the whole ps5 has 3 seconds of loading with 58 fps versus 5 seconds of loading and 56 fps.  People exaggerate negligible differences.

Heck the Switch is a fraction of the ps4 Pro power, I still have a Switch and love the heck out of it. 

Power, IMHO, is overrated.  Demon isn't amazing because it looks good, but rather because of the brilliant design.  

Software Development Kit is my guess... basically it was speculated (By Digital Foundry and seems like some devs were anonymously sourced and confirmed), but then an interview with Codemaster would debunk it (he basically said both SDKs were in similar maturity level with only experience with each differed) that the tools for development on Series was severely delayed compared to PS5 and that this would explain Series having inferior performance to PS5 when specs suggested otherwise.

I did like the looks of the new Demon =p

On people exaggerating the differences I totally agree with you. Even if Series consistently outperformed PS5 by 15-20% while playing you would have a hard time noticing that (unless of course there is an issue with the game).

Mario Kart 8 is the game were I quite caring about Digital Foundry reports.  There was something about how it was 60 fps, but than was 58 fps, than 60 fps.  Or something.  To this day I still have no idea what they are talking about.  

I get people are interested in specifications and performance, which good for them.  It just isn't my thing.  I've been pleased with graphics since the ps3/360, it helps that I started on the NES so gaming overall (even the Switch) just blows my mind with how great things look (and run).  It isn't like we have N64 games running at 8 fps anymore.



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Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:
I expect the differences to be minimal at best. People worry too much about power wars. Games matter far more.

Yep. Games matter more no doubt.

I posted the interview because that may help explain a little why we are seeing the PS5 advantage on the start of the gen (seems like SDK was debunked), and that sure it can improve along the gen with better utilization of the CU advantage of Xbox. But yep in the end for consumer themselves the differences won't be easily perceived.

I have no idea what SDK references.  Either way, I don't get too excited with the whole ps5 has 3 seconds of loading with 58 fps versus 5 seconds of loading and 56 fps.  People exaggerate negligible differences.

Heck the Switch is a fraction of the ps4 Pro power, I still have a Switch and love the heck out of it. 

Power, IMHO, is overrated.  Demon isn't amazing because it looks good, but rather because of the brilliant design.  

Software Development Kit is my guess... basically it was speculated (By Digital Foundry and seems like some devs were anonymously sourced and confirmed), but then an interview with Codemaster would debunk it (he basically said both SDKs were in similar maturity level with only experience with each differed) that the tools for development on Series was severely delayed compared to PS5 and that this would explain Series having inferior performance to PS5 when specs suggested otherwise.

I did like the looks of the new Demon =p

On people exaggerating the differences I totally agree with you. Even if Series consistently outperformed PS5 by 15-20% while playing you would have a hard time noticing that (unless of course there is an issue with the game).

Mario Kart 8 is the game were I quite caring about Digital Foundry reports.  There was something about how it was 60 fps, but than was 58 fps, than 60 fps.  Or something.  To this day I still have no idea what they are talking about.  

I get people are interested in specifications and performance, which good for them.  It just isn't my thing.  I've been pleased with graphics since the ps3/360, it helps that I started on the NES so gaming overall (even the Switch) just blows my mind with how great things look (and run).  It isn't like we have N64 games running at 8 fps anymore.

Some of the most recent videos were funny. Basically they say "the game is locked 60fps, but there were 3 times during the 10h play that for 2s it dropped to 59fps".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

It definitely seems like more third party developers are praising the PS5 compared to the Series X.



PotentHerbs said:
It definitely seems like more third party developers are praising the PS5 compared to the Series X.

True, and that have been happening for like over 6 months, but was considered Sony buying out their praise.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:
I expect the differences to be minimal at best. People worry too much about power wars. Games matter far more.

Yep. Games matter more no doubt.

I posted the interview because that may help explain a little why we are seeing the PS5 advantage on the start of the gen (seems like SDK was debunked), and that sure it can improve along the gen with better utilization of the CU advantage of Xbox. But yep in the end for consumer themselves the differences won't be easily perceived.

I have no idea what SDK references.  Either way, I don't get too excited with the whole ps5 has 3 seconds of loading with 58 fps versus 5 seconds of loading and 56 fps.  People exaggerate negligible differences.

Heck the Switch is a fraction of the ps4 Pro power, I still have a Switch and love the heck out of it. 

Power, IMHO, is overrated.  Demon isn't amazing because it looks good, but rather because of the brilliant design.  

This interview isn't about power, it's about ease of programming with a custom (re)made Software Development Kit to get the best out of the hardware. It says over and over, tf don't matter, how you use the hardware is what matters. Which is also why the Switch is working so well. Custom made.

MS can say they have the complete RDNA 2 feature set (DirectX) yet in practice DirectX is a bottleneck compared to a custom made SDK for the hardware it runs on. The benefit of coding with standard libraries is easier porting to PC and easier / more foolproof BC. Hence Sony gives out a warning that some ps4 games my act up on the ps5.

So in essence Sony was correct in stating they still believe in generations (new SDK) despite offering cross-gen exclusives. While MS continues to offer a PC in a box with easier cross platform releases (between PC and XBox) There are benefits and drawbacks to both approaches. Personally, I can't wait to see what Naughty Dog and Guerilla games can pull off in the second half of the generation.



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I don't know why people are surprised at developer response to PS5, "more generic power" (which is nothing new) or fundamental new possibilities. This isn't about consolewar fanboys, it is about professionals expressing what they find interesting and compelling. That doesn't need to be same as what matters to gamers, but if you are going to listen to developers it's reasonable to engage with their context.

Honestly I'm disappointed so much of response seems to devolve "durrr... fast load times" although I guess going further requires more thinking. "Load times" tends to imply beginning of levels etc, but as Epic engine optimization made clear, it's relevant for alot more than that in live gaming. More or less, it should translate to more of the screen visuals using higher resolution textures more of the time, certainly relevant to visual quality.

This dev does go a bit into the GPU frequency thing, although I feel the interviewer can't follow thru and ends up dragging him back to passe stuff. Tempest 3D Audio is sometimes discussed (not here), although I'm curious if/how devs might use it for non-audio tasks with it supposedly working like Cell. If they decide a game doesn't need 100x audio spatializations, the hardware could be used for things like Cell was, augmenting GPU or even CPU.

Last edited by mutantsushi - on 17 November 2020

The dev is talking about ease of use, not power. Series X is still more powerful regardless of how anyone spins it. The devkits are easier to use for PS5 than Series X, hence why devs were complaining about getting dev kits late from MS, so likely Xbox is lagging behind in that sense. At the end of the day, the difference between both consoles were always going to be minimal and that is how it has turned out. Just like how everyone was saying ps5 SSD is 100% faster than Xbox and we would see loading times twice as fast on ps5, but looking at real world examples it ends up being 1-3 seconds difference or Series X loading faster in cases.



smroadkill15 said:

The dev is talking about ease of use, not power. Series X is still more powerful regardless of how anyone spins it. The devkits are easier to use for PS5 than Series X, hence why devs were complaining about getting dev kits late from MS, so likely Xbox is lagging behind in that sense. At the end of the day, the difference between both consoles were always going to be minimal and that is how it has turned out. Just like how everyone was saying ps5 SSD is 100% faster than Xbox and we would see loading times twice as fast on ps5, but looking at real world examples it ends up being 1-3 seconds difference or Series X loading faster in cases.

for the SDK being late, basically Codemaster dev denies it and say both devkits were hot and the difference would be dev experience with them (and well you can't say they didn't had time to adapt to DirectX12), unless you want to say Sony SDK are better.

And the interview the dev in OP talks about power and how to use it, and that even though on paper Xbox is stronger 12>10 but if that can't be used because of other aspects of the HW limiting it use (besides tool and experience) you may end up not touching that difference. And goes on to say that what he expect is that Xbox due to the higher CU and Tflop will push pixels easier but other aspects of IQ on the game PS5 may have an advantage due to the customizations.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Any game that drops below 60FPS and does not have ray tracing is literally unplayable. Automatic low score.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.

To long to read while at work. I'm gona go and asume it all sais tflops dont matter.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.