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Forums - Sony Discussion - TLOU2 is losing steam. Why?

Leynos said:
I personally don't get the people can't handle a muscular woman argument. I mean, Capcom fighting games like Chun Li. Or just about any female in a Capcom fighting game and half the roster of Mortal Kombat games. Samus Aran esp in the SNES version. Overwatch. Tyris Flare of Golden Axe. Blaze of Streets of Rage. Vanessa lewis VF. Amazon Dragon's Crown. Kassandra AC:O. Kanna Kirishima Sakura Wars. Boss MGS3. Leona Heidern KOF. Female warrior in Diablo. Rinkah FE Fates. Milda from Grandia. Ayla Chrono Trigger. Hanna Suikoden 2. Shina Bloody Roar. Hammer Fable II. And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Hundreds more muscular female characters in games. So I don't buy that argument people hate TLOUII because muscle woman.

Not making said argument but a lot of those first examples are "sexualised" or feminine with muscles. They're notstraight up Butch. The rest belong to games which haven't sold in their lifetime what THLOU2 sold its in its first 3 days. The fallout regarding Abby's character was centered on the idea that ND has been corrupted by politics and pushing an agenda, it was more a less a stupid culture war. That being the case I doubt people would of fixated on Abby if she looked like this




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Curious to why people think this game is GOTG let alone GOTY? If Sony's or ND's name wasn't attached to it, would they be still saying the same thing?
Iv played both, i can say the 1st game is a lot better than the 2nd game and even the 1st game wasn't GOTG. Outside of its visuals, why is TLOU2 GOTY? Dont get me wrong, I wont be surprised if it wins GOTY awards due to the industry being the industry and they have to stay in their circle of profits and what benefits their business, but why do some gamer's think its the best thing to come out this gen? Honest question.



Burning Typhoon said:
BraLoD said:

The hate campaign started a month before the game even released, the majority of metacritic score game asap when it was humanly impossible to have beaten the game.

I'm part of some gaming communities on facebook and a lot of people still can't handle a woman being as strong as Abby was, even as she trained her ass off like a maniac for her revenge.

The reason behind the hate campaign was just one: blind hate.

I've already stated exactly what the issues with the game were.  You didn't address a single one of them, and bring up the irrelevance of Abby's body structure.  I didn't once mention it because it had nothing to do with why the game was bad.  Four or five people not being able to handle muscular women is not the same thing.  There's no reason to even bring that up as a part of the conversation.  Of course, there's blind hate but not to the point you're speaking of.  Because if you have to bring that up, you have to bring up Ellie's sexuality too.  It's not a big deal, not everyone has to be the same, and it's fine.  If you have a problem with Abby you no doubt have a problem with Ellie too, and I don't see you mention that either.

I've heard people say, "I don't use females in games."  And you know what?  That's fine too.  Some people just don't like playing characters that aren't like them.  But I've already said my issues with the game, and it had nothing to do with my expectation of how women should be treated in games.  If it was really that bad, the first game would have failed.

Abby's set-up was done entirely wrong in the game.  You have to make a character be legitimately likable if you want her to kill Joel, and that's not what happened.

It is relevant when it becomes a meme, you are completely understimating the power of ridiculous stuff on the internet.

I've heard more about Abby body then the spoilers before the game released (gladly), and people were going on a purposedly harmful spree of spoiling of the game.

About what Abby does, you are making a mistake thinking she has to be likable to do anything, everyone is quite flawed in TLoU world, that's a lot of its essence, nodoby is a hero, Joel certainly wasn't, and that was a huge point in the original game: egotism.

About Ellie sexuality, it was already a part of the original game, it was a big point of its DLC too, it was nothing new.

TLoU2 got a lot of hate from people that never touched it, people that talk a lot of shit about things they don't even know, it was the same back then with the original, TLoU was the game that made mainstream the idiocy of "Sony make movies not games", gladly it was completely crushed by the game success, TLoU was a shiny new thing afterall.

The hate TLoU2 got was built quite a lot prior the game release, which was carried by a massive hate campaign, very clear on Metacritic, from people that never played it and didn't knew a thing about the game but memes and cherry picked spoilers.

On this very site I was told the game was supposed to have a horrible ending when it had a completely well thought one which a lot of built up within the game to develop that way.

All games, and things, suffer from blind hate to various extents, but as far as games goes TLoU2 is by far the biggest case we have had, it felt like it was quite organized and had the clear goal to set a bad image of it as if it was a consensus.

TLoU2 will have excellent sales anyway, we still have its multiplayer game to come and a potential PS5 second wind.

But what was pushed against this game was certainly blind hate to gargantuous extents. You don't get 50K+ people that didn't play it giving it 0 scores on metacritic before day one was even finished (with more than 130K total scores now) when very successful games like GoW4 only move 13K in their whole lifetime. It was a completely unnatural thing, it was staged and it affected the hive-mind view of it to some good extent without a doubt.



Another thought, it’s just the first phase. The delayed multiplayer should have come out by now. I feel it’s being deliberately held back to be a core selling point in the inevitable remaster. Sony will likely bundle it like they did with the PS4 back in the day. This game when said and done will have its time in the sun again.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

BraLoD said:
Burning Typhoon said:

I've already stated exactly what the issues with the game were.  You didn't address a single one of them, and bring up the irrelevance of Abby's body structure.  I didn't once mention it because it had nothing to do with why the game was bad.  Four or five people not being able to handle muscular women is not the same thing.  There's no reason to even bring that up as a part of the conversation.  Of course, there's blind hate but not to the point you're speaking of.  Because if you have to bring that up, you have to bring up Ellie's sexuality too.  It's not a big deal, not everyone has to be the same, and it's fine.  If you have a problem with Abby you no doubt have a problem with Ellie too, and I don't see you mention that either.

I've heard people say, "I don't use females in games."  And you know what?  That's fine too.  Some people just don't like playing characters that aren't like them.  But I've already said my issues with the game, and it had nothing to do with my expectation of how women should be treated in games.  If it was really that bad, the first game would have failed.

Abby's set-up was done entirely wrong in the game.  You have to make a character be legitimately likable if you want her to kill Joel, and that's not what happened.

It is relevant when it becomes a meme, you are completely understimating the power of ridiculous stuff on the internet.

I've heard more about Abby body then the spoilers before the game released (gladly), and people were going on a purposedly harmful spree of spoiling of the game.

About what Abby does, you are making a mistake thinking she has to be likable to do anything, everyone is quite flawed in TLoU world, that's a lot of its essence, nodoby is a hero, Joel certainly wasn't, and that was a huge point in the original game: egotism.

About Ellie sexuality, it was already a part of the original game, it was a big point of its DLC too, it was nothing new.

TLoU2 got a lot of hate from people that never touched it, people that talk a lot of shit about things they don't even know, it was the same back then with the original, TLoU was the game that made mainstream the idiocy of "Sony make movies not games", gladly it was completely crushed by the game success, TLoU was a shiny new thing afterall.

The hate TLoU2 got was built quite a lot prior the game release, which was carried by a massive hate campaign, very clear on Metacritic, from people that never played it and didn't knew a thing about the game but memes and cherry picked spoilers.

On this very site I was told the game was supposed to have a horrible ending when it had a completely well thought one which a lot of built up within the game to develop that way.

All games, and things, suffer from blind hate to various extents, but as far as games goes TLoU2 is by far the biggest case we have had, it felt like it was quite organized and had the clear goal to set a bad image of it as if it was a consensus.

TLoU2 will have excellent sales anyway, we still have its multiplayer game to come and a potential PS5 second wind.

But what was pushed against this game was certainly blind hate to gargantuous extents. You don't get 50K+ people that didn't play it giving it 0 scores on metacritic before day one was even finished (with more than 130K total scores now) when very successful games like GoW4 only move 13K in their whole lifetime. It was a completely unnatural thing, it was staged and it affected the hive-mind view of it to some good extent without a doubt.

Everything you said is correct, but I don’t think it was as impactful as you believed. In the end these were a vocal minority, in the low hundreds of thousands that were in a endless circle of validating each other on social media and YT videos. Didn’t stop the game from being extremely front loaded in sales.

Filtering out the hate campaigns, you have to admit the actual playerbase is divided based solely on how Ellie and Joel were treated. In general it’s controversial when you build up a connection with characters with gamers and subsequently drag them though the mud in the sequel. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Because it is not good enough to have long legs.



Azzanation said:
Curious to why people think this game is GOTY?

Could the reason be that they happen to like the game?

I see why the story (and character arcs) can be divisive but I personally enjoyed playing it. I preferred the story in TLOU but TLOU2's improved gameplay mechanics pretty much outweighs it (for me). I'm hyped for Cyberpunk and I can't say which game will be GOTY (for me) until the end of the year.



Azzanation said:
Curious to why people think this game is GOTG let alone GOTY? If Sony's or ND's name wasn't attached to it, would they be still saying the same thing?
Iv played both, i can say the 1st game is a lot better than the 2nd game and even the 1st game wasn't GOTG. Outside of its visuals, why is TLOU2 GOTY? Dont get me wrong, I wont be surprised if it wins GOTY awards due to the industry being the industry and they have to stay in their circle of profits and what benefits their business, but why do some gamer's think its the best thing to come out this gen? Honest question.

After my first playthrough of tlou2, I realized how much we overhyped the first game. I thought to myself the first game was bigger, longer and better. Then I replayed tlou remastered, and found I was wrong. The sequel was better in everyway except for maybe the soundtrack. The first game was great, it had it's moments, but ellie was the star and driving force of that game, not joel.  and for every cool moment in that game, I could find more in the sequel. Then I replayed the tlou2 again, and then a third time on grounded mode, and now I am convinced it's one of the best games ever made, besting the first. Also the game story got better after my first playthrough. I picked up more on missed story elements, conversations between characters stood out more, things made more sense, I felt more connected to side characters I initially ignored or didn't care much for the first time. The story is so well written and crafted, the whole butterfly effect and and looking at things from different perspectives, every cutscene and spoken dialogue,  the hollywood level care into every direction. Visuals is on another level, and is the best looking game hands down, alongside death stranding. Music, we all know how good it is. Gameplay, physics is taken to a new level (glass and rope mechanics), so is enemy AI, the shooting and visceral action, damage models and ai reactions, animation and audio is again unprecedented in gaming. I don't think we will see a game on this level again till naughtydog makes a sequel or a new game. So definitely game in the year, not ghost of tsushima, and I doubt even a game like cyberpunk will exclipse it.



I am playing it at the moment, but it's mostly more of the same al be it with much better presentation. Animation is once again bought to new heights. However so far I think the story is less than the first one. Mind you I am not that far in. Also some of the dialogue options strike me as odd (biggot sandwich for example). I do enjoy the game and I can clearly see Uncharted is influence with the large open world map at the start which is 's bit like Madagascar. Still its a solid game, (8/10) but in my opinion not as good as the first one or God of War/Horizon Zero Dawn if we compare it to a Sony produced game with legs. .



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Azzanation said:
Curious to why people think this game is GOTG let alone GOTY? If Sony's or ND's name wasn't attached to it, would they be still saying the same thing?
Iv played both, i can say the 1st game is a lot better than the 2nd game and even the 1st game wasn't GOTG. Outside of its visuals, why is TLOU2 GOTY? Dont get me wrong, I wont be surprised if it wins GOTY awards due to the industry being the industry and they have to stay in their circle of profits and what benefits their business, but why do some gamer's think its the best thing to come out this gen? Honest question.

It's by far the best character study case made in gaming story, with brave decisions in the storyline and a deep emotional character development.