Forums - Gaming Discussion - What threat does Gamepass pose for Sony in the long run?

Ms first party games on  gamepass never leaves gamepass. The smaller indies or some third party games do leave gamepass. However u are given minimum 6 months to finish the game before it leaves gamepass. When it does, I are given option to own it at a discounted price.  There has been amazing games added to the list like rdr 2, now doom eternal and soon to be many Bethesda owned games. I got to experience outerworlds thanks to gamepass as that was an amazing rpg game. 

Runa216 said:

JWeinCom said:

Well, look at the games lists. I think they speak for themselves.

Whether or not Sony's in real danger, they seem to be reacting to it. I believe that PSNow added the ability to download games fairly recently (about 2 years ago) once Gamepass started taking off. They've been adding more recent and high profile releases such as RE:7, FFXV, and SFV than they had in the past (although this still lags compared to Gamepass). And I also think PS Plus Collection was at least partially developed to counteract the value proposition of Gamepass for early adopters. 

As for saying Gamepass is the same thing as having an always on DRM requirement for the games already purchased... Are there really no differences in those situations? I feel like if you tried to play devil's advocate, you could come up with some...

Oh, there are differences between DRM and Gamepass/Now. no doubt. However, it's just another step towards taking control away from the consumer. Game companies have been trying to limit how much control people have for ages. they fought likened used games to piracy and fought it until people resisted, they tried to implement DRM in many ways and people resisted, Microsoft tried to make the Xbox One Always Online from the get-go and people resisted. now they're following in the path of Netflix and once again trying to control what people can play and how they can play it. It's not the same, but it's another way to get to the same point. 

Long story short, forcing us into monthly subscriptions and curating what is on there controls us, at least a bit. It's not inherently bad on its own - Netflix and other video streaming services are great - but for an interactive medium it does encourage playing now, playing often, and not waiting just in case something goes down. It forces you to be online. It's a good deal, for sure (Both Now and Gamepass, in their own ways), but it's just a far easier to digest version of Always Online DRM in a manner of speaking. 

I play games at my own pace. It's why I don't even borrow and never used to rent. It's also why I don't play Games as a Service games, games with recurrent spending, or many online games. IT's also why I love Sony's offerings: Almost all of their games are singleplayer offline games.

Clearly these online games and these service models have an audience - they keep making money - but there will always be plenty of people who want games that aren't on the clock. I'm one of them, and I'm not the only one. 



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d21lewis said:
SvennoJ said:

I'm 46 and thanks to streaming I'm watching TV and movies less than ever. I used to collect a lot of movies, used to spend over 2,000 dollars a year on blu-rays. Then Netflix and other digital services came around while movie quality kept going down (not sure if those are related) So I started watching stuff on Netflix I might have normally taken a chance on to purchase. The crappier image and sound quality made me enjoy it less, getting less interested in watching movies as a result.

Then TV started eroding. Quality shows disappear behind an extra paywall or exclusive streaming service. I 'compensated' by buying them on blu-ray yet now that ship is going down as well. Still waiting for The Expanse S4 to arrive on blu-ray, if ever. Disney took their content from Netflix and frankly while Netflix has a few decent series, most are pretty substandard. Netflix keeps bombarding me with things that match my viewing habits yet I find I'm starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel while I watch for less than an hour a day.

So I spend more time gaming instead of watching movies or TV. Can't wait for streaming to ruin that as well...



Well, damn. Come here, buddy.

*hugs Svennoj*

Haha thanks.

Not all streaming is bad, FS 2020 makes very good use of streaming data. I do wonder whether game pass had a positive or negative effect on FS2020. The game had a rather rocky launch with still many problems, not the least switching from game pass to the Steam edition. I bought the game up front and I'm sticking with it. However how many people tried it on game pass, ran into some problems and simply moved on.

Did MS pressure Asobo to release early to have something out and get them started on the XBox version, or did they run out of money. It's clearly still in the beta test phase, very playable already (depending on how you play and which plane you use), yet with countless issues, many which should never have made it to release.

I hope the too early release doesn't hurt it in the long run. The sim fans will stick with it regardless, yet without money from more casual players, what's going to keep providing the cash to finish the game? I guess all the overpriced DLC :/

Eh whatever, yesterday I found the perfect spot for the black gate of Mordor, next to Amguid, Algeria





Runa216 said:
AsGryffynn said:

Here's the hilarious part where I remind everyone Sony had 6 different catalogs to pull from to MS's three. 

So where's that logic when I talk about Backwards compatibility, and say that PS4's library is bigger than the three libraries of the Xbox, 360, and One coming forward? One catalog vs three, and it won. Just accept that Sony wins some places, Microsoft wins others, and clearly the areas where PS excels are the places that gamers care about, as Sony has consistently done well and has done outstandingly this gen. That's not even an opinion, that's observable truth, and what I've been saying since the beginning. 

My point is, in relation to the thread at hand, is that Sony isn't worried about GamePass. They have nothing to fear. It's a good service that doesn't seem to impact their business model at all. They have an equivalent in PSNow and people don't care as much about it, so they focus their resources elsewhere - like on exclusives and actually giving us new hardware that isn't just the same as the old hardware. What Microsoft did this gen didn't work for them. It may have been profitable, but it's not as good as what Sony's doing. The 48 million vs 113 millon consoles sold should speak volumes to that fact. And again, to repeat, Microsoft wins in some areas and Sony wins in others, and the fact that PS4 sold so much more than Xbox both in hardware and software shows that the areas that Sony won are clearly of higher value to customers. That's business. 

Having more shovelware from being the market leader in 1 gen doesn’t make you the BC king if you only have one gen to show for it. 

But we agree that Sony isn’t worried about Game Pass, which is exactly how MS likes it. Sony doing the same thing gen after gen. Make a console, make exclusives, sell consoles. Which has more then worked out but the market is changing and expanding fast. Even Nintendo adapted and appeals to the handheld crowd in addition to home console crowd.

Streaming and subscription models are gonna be more and more prominent, and Sony will likely be fine, but stuck in the console only “walled garden”. Where as Game Pass will have cornered the PC and mobile markets in their complacency.

Last edited by sales2099 - on 16 October 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

SvennoJ said:
d21lewis said:

Well, damn. Come here, buddy.

*hugs Svennoj*

Haha thanks.

Not all streaming is bad, FS 2020 makes very good use of streaming data. I do wonder whether game pass had a positive or negative effect on FS2020. The game had a rather rocky launch with still many problems, not the least switching from game pass to the Steam edition. I bought the game up front and I'm sticking with it. However how many people tried it on game pass, ran into some problems and simply moved on.

Did MS pressure Asobo to release early to have something out and get them started on the XBox version, or did they run out of money. It's clearly still in the beta test phase, very playable already (depending on how you play and which plane you use), yet with countless issues, many which should never have made it to release.

I hope the too early release doesn't hurt it in the long run. The sim fans will stick with it regardless, yet without money from more casual players, what's going to keep providing the cash to finish the game? I guess all the overpriced DLC :/

Eh whatever, yesterday I found the perfect spot for the black gate of Mordor, next to Amguid, Algeria

I wouldn’t worry, it sold a million on Steam. Should sell more during the holiday period. And many Xbox gamers like myself just chomping at the bit to play this on Series X 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
Runa216 said:

So where's that logic when I talk about Backwards compatibility, and say that PS4's library is bigger than the three libraries of the Xbox, 360, and One coming forward? One catalog vs three, and it won. Just accept that Sony wins some places, Microsoft wins others, and clearly the areas where PS excels are the places that gamers care about, as Sony has consistently done well and has done outstandingly this gen. That's not even an opinion, that's observable truth, and what I've been saying since the beginning. 

My point is, in relation to the thread at hand, is that Sony isn't worried about GamePass. They have nothing to fear. It's a good service that doesn't seem to impact their business model at all. They have an equivalent in PSNow and people don't care as much about it, so they focus their resources elsewhere - like on exclusives and actually giving us new hardware that isn't just the same as the old hardware. What Microsoft did this gen didn't work for them. It may have been profitable, but it's not as good as what Sony's doing. The 48 million vs 113 millon consoles sold should speak volumes to that fact. And again, to repeat, Microsoft wins in some areas and Sony wins in others, and the fact that PS4 sold so much more than Xbox both in hardware and software shows that the areas that Sony won are clearly of higher value to customers. That's business. 

Having more shovelware from being the market leader in 1 gen doesn’t make you the BC king if you only have one gen to show for it. 

But we agree that Sony isn’t worried about Game Pass, which is exactly how MS likes it. Sony doing the same thing gen after gen. Make a console, make exclusives, sell consoles. Which has more then worked out but the market is changing and expanding fast. Even Nintendo adapted and appeals to the handheld crowd in addition to home console crowd.

Streaming and subscription models are gonna be more and more prominent, and Sony will likely be fine, but stuck in the console only “walled garden”. Where as Game Pass will have cornered the PC and mobile markets in their complacency.

Shovelware? Dude, I checked. PS4 has 99 exclusives compared to Xbox One's 24. a 4:1 ratio. And none of those are shovelware. I only included titles that have 75 or higher on metacritic, and have at least 20 reviews to show this. You can't just claim 'shovelware' because you don't like to admit that PS4's library is provably better than Xbox's. 

Also, people have been saying Streaming is going to take over since 2012 when Sony bought Gaikai. it's been tinkering around the edges of the industry for nearly a decade now and it's still not the driving force in gaming that it is in TV/Movies, likely because of the interactive nature of the medium. You can't just repeat the same 'it's gonna be big' all the time and hope it's true. The way things went this entire generation tells a different tale. GamePass and Streaming and Subscription models are nice additives to a console's game library, but they're not a key driving force. If it was...

then the Xbox...

Would have Sold...

a whole lot more...

Than it did...

This 'Gamepass is gonna change the world' narrative is fantasy. IT's a good deal, we all agree to that, but it's not grabbing the industry like your narrative would suggest. And honestly, I'm personally glad it's not guiding the industry. I'd probably give up on gaming if I had to pay a monthly fee just to play games. It's fine as an option, but it's not the driving force in the industry, hasn't been for as long as it's been known about, and doesn't seem to be shaking things up much. I just...why do you keep pushing the same narrative and the same ideals and the same false claims all the time. If the things you keep saying about Xbox are true, then things would be different. You're talking theories, potential, and possibility, but we have something like 8 years of experience and data that counters your claims. 

Honestly, I'd like to be wrong, in a manner of speaking. I'd like for Nintendo to do their Nintendo thing and do well with the Switch, for Sony to do well with its mass market, worldwide appeal and high quality story-based exclusives, and Microsoft to excel at online services and multiplayer games. At least that would give each company value again like the PSWii60 era. right now, Xbox is going after the same crowd that Sony already has won and haven't brought anywhere near the quality or quantity to compete so they're just hoping to throw money at the problem and strong-arm their way into people's homes by buying companies that has yet to pay off. 

Everyone has this idea that Microsoft is doing better now because they didn't try to pull a DRM scam on gamers leading into Gen 9, so a lot of people like you are praising them for learning their lesson and thinking about the consumer but they're coming off 3-5 years of the most anemic release schedule they've ever seen. Gamepass isn't helping to bandage over the complete lack of reasons to get the console. It's nice that many of their exclusives are going to be on gamepass day one, that's a good idea...but when they only get 1-3 exclusives a year worth getting excited about, well it's not worth it and it's not helping. 

Hell, they can't even launch a console with a Halo game anymore. I just don't think they're doing anything to scare Sony. As I said, Playstation has Now which is comparable in functionality but not as popular because it's got lower quality games and isn't marketed as well, their backwards compatibility is more robust, their exclusives are hilariously outclassing Xbox's exclusives in terms of reviews and sales, and Microsoft has all these neat ideas that just aren't working out. Sony at their worst outsold Microsoft at their best. I am quite confident Gamepass is not a threat to Sony. It hasn't been in the past, and unless Microsoft really amps up the production of first party exclusives, it will always just be that thing on Xbox that all Xbox users have but PS users don't need. 



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
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GamePass is optional, you don't have to pay a monthly fee to play the games lol.

Also LOL @ the idea that Microsoft is going after the same crowd as Sony. Doesn't really look like it to me. MS is just going after gamers in general. The closest thing they have to a Sony style game is maybe Hellblade II, that's it. The rest, nah. Sony doesn't have a Halo, doesn't have Forza Horizon, doesn't have Wasteland, doesn't have Fable, doesn't have a Gears, doesn't have a Doom, doesn't have a Fallout, doesn't have an Outer Worlds, doesn't have an Elder Scrolls, etc etc. And on the flip side you could list games Sony has that MS does not have an alternative to, just proves how wrong your point is. Bottom line is they can offer meaty single player experiences AND do it in ways Sony doesn't. They've been doing it all gen.

"they're just hoping to throw money at the problem and strong-arm their way into people's homes by buying companies that has yet to pay off. "

This is the weirdest part of that reply. Number one, you do realize this is exactly what Sony has done? Who are some of their biggest developers?

Naughty Dog? Bought.
Insomniac? Bought.
GG? Bought.
MM? Bought.
Sucker Punch? Bought.

Yet, when MS does this, they are just forcing their way into homes by buying companies? Cute.

Also how long did it take for these companies to start putting out the quality titles you're referencing? It took awhile. You say in the case of MS it "hasn't paid off yet", it's been two years since they bought most of these studios and like two weeks since the Bethesda announcement, that purchase isn't even real yet. Calm your titties please.



If you think Sony is lacking an exclusive identity and is at a bigger risk of leaving the console business than Microsoft, you're sadly mistaken.



Runa216 said:
AsGryffynn said:

Here's the hilarious part where I remind everyone Sony had 6 different catalogs to pull from to MS's three. 

So where's that logic when I talk about Backwards compatibility, and say that PS4's library is bigger than the three libraries of the Xbox, 360, and One coming forward? One catalog vs three, and it won. Just accept that Sony wins some places, Microsoft wins others, and clearly the areas where PS excels are the places that gamers care about, as Sony has consistently done well and has done outstandingly this gen. That's not even an opinion, that's observable truth, and what I've been saying since the beginning. 

My point is, in relation to the thread at hand, is that Sony isn't worried about GamePass. They have nothing to fear. It's a good service that doesn't seem to impact their business model at all. They have an equivalent in PSNow and people don't care as much about it, so they focus their resources elsewhere - like on exclusives and actually giving us new hardware that isn't just the same as the old hardware. What Microsoft did this gen didn't work for them. It may have been profitable, but it's not as good as what Sony's doing. The 48 million vs 113 millon consoles sold should speak volumes to that fact. And again, to repeat, Microsoft wins in some areas and Sony wins in others, and the fact that PS4 sold so much more than Xbox both in hardware and software shows that the areas that Sony won are clearly of higher value to customers. That's business. 

Selling more games because you have more console gens to pull from doesn't give you victory. It actually means your rival is faring better than you because even though they have less to pull from, they can scrap the edges of their barrel to give you stuff. PS has done nothing but been a pain in the a** for... me and pretty much anyone who wants a "no barriers" experience. 

Current gen means nothing at all... or do I need to remind you how much worse things were from the 5th to the 6th and how Sony had to redline themselves just to equal MSFT? 

Runa216 said:
AsGryffynn said:
I must highlight (by the way, why did everyone forget at all...) that GP is an streaming+download service. Sony's counterpart exclusively streams and that's a boomer for some when they don't have decent latency and their company is known for less than stellar server coverage (whereas MS reaps their greenbacks from Azure).

False. 300 games are available for download on PSNow. The selection is arguably weaker than Gamepass's 200 or so titles, but your statement is false. 

Then why is WP touting it as a "cloud gaming" service and not a subscription gaming one. 

I know I am one of the people who slams MS for having awful marketing, but this is just dumb and proof their marketing team for PSN isn't doing a good job. Also... 7 days to reconnect... who the hell are they, Apple? 

At least MS gives you the whole month. 

d21lewis said:
SvennoJ said:

I'm 46 and thanks to streaming I'm watching TV and movies less than ever. I used to collect a lot of movies, used to spend over 2,000 dollars a year on blu-rays. Then Netflix and other digital services came around while movie quality kept going down (not sure if those are related) So I started watching stuff on Netflix I might have normally taken a chance on to purchase. The crappier image and sound quality made me enjoy it less, getting less interested in watching movies as a result.

Then TV started eroding. Quality shows disappear behind an extra paywall or exclusive streaming service. I 'compensated' by buying them on blu-ray yet now that ship is going down as well. Still waiting for The Expanse S4 to arrive on blu-ray, if ever. Disney took their content from Netflix and frankly while Netflix has a few decent series, most are pretty substandard. Netflix keeps bombarding me with things that match my viewing habits yet I find I'm starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel while I watch for less than an hour a day.

So I spend more time gaming instead of watching movies or TV. Can't wait for streaming to ruin that as well...



Well, damn. Come here, buddy.

*hugs Svennoj*

Netflix doesn't really output "quality". Amazon Prime. Also, you can buy and download digitally for halfway decent resolution. 



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Warning: This poster has a very negative opinion of Sony and Nintendo, Idea Factory and companies Tecmo Koei, EA, BioWare, Blizzard, Treyarch, Infinity Ward, Kadokawa and Sega. If you have very positive views of these and a negative view of Microsoft or Bethesda Game Studios, AVOID ENGAGEMENT AT ALL COSTS! 

    LudicrousSpeed said:


    This is the weirdest part of that reply. Number one, you do realize this is exactly what Sony has done? Who are some of their biggest developers?

    Naughty Dog? Bought.
    Insomniac? Bought.
    GG? Bought.
    MM? Bought.
    Sucker Punch? Bought.

    Yet, when MS does this, they are just forcing their way into homes by buying companies? Cute.

    I mean, you do realise that ND, SP and Insomniac all had long histories with Sony before being bought?

    You do realise that MM's first game was LBP?

    GG is the only dev in that list that is even remotely similar to what MS has been doing.

    But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. MS made a business decision to strengthen their brand. That's what business is. It doesn't change the fact that studios with a long history of 3rd party development and 3rd party IPs, will now belong to a single company.

    But it is what it is. Time will tell how effective these purchases will be.



    Sony is going to have to push playstation now and be agressive about it, since gamepass is an attractive offer for new gamers. Just how xbox live made sony rethink their services, gamepass will force sony to act and push it out further.