It's mediocre, but with everything that has been going on I can't blame them.
It's mediocre, but with everything that has been going on I can't blame them.
IcaroRibeiro said: People made a good point here In past Nintendo had 2/3 systems to support at the same time at the handhelds were usually the most successful of the bunch, now they only have one Sure, some can argue portable games are less demanding to develop than home console games, but so are those ports/remasters |
Yea this is something that's undeniably a little disappointing, the combination of teams didn't really lead to more games from a streamlined process, it just feels like one console gets the same amount of games as a 3DS + Wii U combination, which by itself is a pretty good proposition, except I'm not even sure if that's necessarily true (because I think for example only having Animal Crossing on one system might push Nintendo to need a system seller for the other system not getting a new Animal Crossing, and also the lower system specs of the 3DS allowed for games to be turned out quicker).
That thread from long ago that specifically said that the streamlining of game development wouldn't lead to more games but rather just help develop more ambitious HD titles was spot-on, which makes it a little bit harder to swallow that some games have gotten delayed a lot, or have taken a while to come out from initial reveal.
At the same time I'm not in denial, I know this will probably lead to a much better second half for the consoles lifespan. From what I remember (and I could be wrong) the 3DS post 2014 was a little barebones, you did have some years that were pretty close to great (like 2016 with Pokemon and Fire Emblem and Monster Hunter Generations, although even then that would be dependent on if you lived in the West or not, and Generations wasn't huge in the West), but at the same time it was obvious that both the 3DS and Wii U suffered from having original titles because Nintendo was gearing for their next system. In contrast, 2021 will probably be one of their best years, and while I don't think that will be true for 2023, 2022 should at least have some big original releases, giving it 2 pretty damn good years near the end of it's life.
RolStoppable said:
Good to see that reality settles in. I always found it weird that people jumped to the conclusion that consolidation of home console and handheld software development would result in greater software output overall when at the same time development times for individual titles were bound to increase (an NX game takes more effort than a 3DS game, obviously). Wii U and 3DS was the generation where it stopped working for Nintendo, so both systems suffered from first party software droughts at various points in their respective lifes. But the same amount of software concentrated on one platform would have been fine and Switch demonstrates that it is. Now the next step is for people at large to realize that the expectation of a Switch successor in 2022 or 2023 is nuts. It already takes a long time to complete development of high profile software, so pushing for even more powerful hardware as soon as possible doesn't make sense. Especially when you consider the current situation where both the Zelda team and EAD Tokyo are very likely to get out their latest games in 2021, so four years after their first Switch games. Nintendo would not be close to ready for a new platform launch in 2022 or 2023. |
Oh I've known that for a while now to be fair, probably since after 2018.
I could see 2023, but I would hope for 2024, as I think there's still quite a bit of life left in the Switch, and with the way technology progresses I think waiting it out as long as possible while still maintaining high demand is smart. 2022 just sounds fucking insane, and would be beyond stupid from Nintendo too.
Well, I think the pandemic ended up changing their plans a little.
I imagine that the big holiday title (the one that release around november 20) would be Super mario 3D world, that appeals 2D and 3D plataformer mario audience, and would just fit with the sales-wise importance of the date.
Make more sense than Hyrule warriors, a usually niche game (that will end up being the best selling musou ever).
However the pandemic just pushed the 3d world development to next year. It would be a top notch holiday season if it was not delayed.
I was hoping for Mario Odyssey 2 as the big holiday title, but it seems unlikely now that 3D All Stars was delayed from spring to now (would be too many Mario games coming out I guess). Will we get another double release for Zelda and Mario next year like in 2017 (Game of the Year battle would be on again). Odyssey 2 hasn't been confirmed, I'm just really hoping for it (and there might be hints, such as Isla Delfino being removed from the Odyssey 1 map).
With all the pent up demand Switch has accumulated throughout the year, it will sell like crack-laced hotcakes these Christmas season even without a Smash/Pokemon tier holiday title.
For me personally, Age of Calamity in conjunction with third party titles like Doom Eternal and Fenyx Rising are enough for me to consider it a good holiday quarter. Mario Kart Live also looks like it could be fun.
AngryLittleAlchemist said: Yea this is something that's undeniably a little disappointing, the combination of teams didn't really lead to more games from a streamlined process, it just feels like one console gets the same amount of games as a 3DS + Wii U combination, which by itself is a pretty good proposition, except I'm not even sure if that's necessarily true (because I think for example only having Animal Crossing on one system might push Nintendo to need a system seller for the other system not getting a new Animal Crossing, and also the lower system specs of the 3DS allowed for games to be turned out quicker). That thread from long ago that specifically said that the streamlining of game development wouldn't lead to more games but rather just help develop more ambitious HD titles was spot-on, which makes it a little bit harder to swallow that some games have gotten delayed a lot, or have taken a while to come out from initial reveal. At the same time I'm not in denial, I know this will probably lead to a much better second half for the consoles lifespan. From what I remember (and I could be wrong) the 3DS post 2014 was a little barebones, you did have some years that were pretty close to great (like 2016 with Pokemon and Fire Emblem and Monster Hunter Generations, although even then that would be dependent on if you lived in the West or not, and Generations wasn't huge in the West), but at the same time it was obvious that both the 3DS and Wii U suffered from having original titles because Nintendo was gearing for their next system. In contrast, 2021 will probably be one of their best years, and while I don't think that will be true for 2023, 2022 should at least have some big original releases, giving it 2 pretty damn good years near the end of it's life. |
Yeah anybody who thought we would see a significant increase in the overall amount of Nintendo games was niave, the point of unifying was that they were no longer able to adequately support 2 seperate systems at once.
A 3DS successor would likely have had Vita level specs while a Wii U successor would likely have had PS4/XBO level specs at which point you would see both systems suffer from regular droughts and a continued decline in both their handheld and console markets.
Instead of having 2 systems with mediocre support, they are able to have a single system with great support.
When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.
I added Immortals Fenyx Rising to the list, as it looks like another title people will buy and play.
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Oh I've known that for a while now to be fair, probably since after 2018. I could see 2023, but I would hope for 2024, as I think there's still quite a bit of life left in the Switch, and with the way technology progresses I think waiting it out as long as possible while still maintaining high demand is smart. 2022 just sounds fucking insane, and would be beyond stupid from Nintendo too. |
I wouldn't expect a Switch 2 before 2024. March 2024 feels like it'd be a perfect launch time. Maybe a Switch Home in 2023, combined with Nintendo Select's discounts on games that year, along with final price cuts on the other models, plus third party games, could push Switch through 2023 holidays well and into the last few months before the successor.
I must say though I am disappointed in the lack of first party output considering there is only one system to handle now. Yes more advanced HD games take longer to make than previous gens, and obviously a lot longer than previous portable gens, but still you'd expect more. I think output has been good, but that includes ports, so the amount of new games seems a bit lackluster. It's very possible Nintendo will have a huge 2021 given that some games might have been delayed this year and they might have a bunch of stuff launching around when the next Switch model launches, and especially so to compete with the increased media focus the two next gen systems will have next year. If we get one more decently big new unannounced game this holiday, and then next year lineup is something like 3D World, Wii sports Club port or similar, another RF game, Zelda Collection, BotW2, 2D Mario, a mario sports game, Metroid Prime Trilogy, MP4 or new 2D Metroid, a Pokemon remake, Bayo 3, something like Star Fox or Fzero, and some portable series like Advance Wars or Golden Sun or Kid Icarus or something, I think that'd go a long way to making it feel like Nintendo is handling software output better after recent years where it felt like there were long droughts between big games. And that'd still leave plenty of first party games and sequels and even some ports or remasters to still come out in 2022 and a few in 2023.
Cerebralbore101 said:
Well if we're talking about sales, I don't see this holiday lineup outselling 2018's. Smash + Poke'mon Let's Go is just too much. For both years overall though? Animal Crossing is an absolute sales monster at 25-35 million in its first year, so it's possible. Unlikely but possible. I'd give it 15% odds that AC carries 2020 to better overall software sales than 2018. Xbox usually looks bad, but Playstation? On an overall yearly 1st and 2nd party output basis they are just as good as Nintendo, if not better. But anyway, even if we were to accept Bravely Default II, we'd have to accept Valkyria 4 in the 2018 comparison. Did Valkyria 4 sell well? No, but it was a fantastic game.
I see your point about things counting or not counting. This alternate scenario lines roughly lines up with what we know Nintendo has so far for holidays 2020. |
I can agree to an extent, but I think the situation here is still pretty different. Hyrule Warriors is bigger than Torna and is also a full price new game release. That alongside the nature of it being tied to BotW and being the Canon prequel should make it a pretty decent seller, 4-5 million easily. 3D All-Stars may outsell the Let's Go games and I don't exactly think they are comparable products, but I'll agree that they will do as well as each other. Pikmin 3 will likely be a bigger deal than Bayonetta, and they are also quite different games. This will appeal to a new audience and to those who never played a game in the series before as it will be heavily marketed by Nintendo being a first party game. And then Bravely Default is a bigger IP than Octopath.
I don't think their lineup is amazing or anything but I'm just not fully agreeing that it's as disappointing as you say, even if it might be disappointing to you personally. There's a lot of games and they're all pretty different from each other. They have a good lineup with lots of variety that will pull in a lot of different people to play. I think all things considered, especially with the pandemic, their lineup is a lot better than it could have been.