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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Jimquisition about movie comparisons, crunch and TLOU2

RolStoppable said:
Mordred11 said:

     Why are you being so vocal of a game you haven't played? How can you say TLOU2 is a step back for videogames as a medium without having played the game? Because you read up the story and you watched some cutscenes?

      I don't agree with this video at all because there shouldn't be boundaries on how a story is told. If a specific approach is the best for that story to be told, then so be it. This is becoming a world where everyone is critical of everything, even people who didn't give those things a chance.

mnementh explained it already, but it's not even necessary to have read up on the story of The Last of Us Part II to know that it isn't high quality movie level, because AAA games don't go beyond the depth of a popcorn movie. Whenever video game journalists go out of their way to portray video games as an art form, they usually get caught up in comparisons that make gamers come across as delusional to people outside of gaming. It's the completely wrong approach to garner broader acceptance.

Exactly. And I was happy that Jim so clearly spoke about it. Videogames are a different art medium as movies. Same as movies are different than books. Instead of trying to copy another medium of art in a new one, people should focus on exploring the strengths of the particular medium they use. Jim Sterling showed Undertale, Journey and Celeste as he spoke about different ways the medium should express itself as an art form.



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Mordred11 said:
RolStoppable said:

mnementh explained it already, but it's not even necessary to have read up on the story of The Last of Us Part II to know that it isn't high quality movie level, because AAA games don't go beyond the depth of a popcorn movie. Whenever video game journalists go out of their way to portray video games as an art form, they usually get caught up in comparisons that make gamers come across as delusional to people outside of gaming. It's the completely wrong approach to garner broader acceptance.

A wrong, deeply misinformed statement in regards to TLOU2 and my love for movies is beyond that of videogames. The way this game portrays pain and how even the best of people can succumb to pain is unlike anything I've seen in a movie form.

Sorry, the video was about comparisons of TLOU2 to Schindler's List. And Jim Sterling explained why this comparison falls flat.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year], [1], [2], [3], [4]

The Fury said:
His video, while on form with his usual stuff raised a question for me.

What is considered a good video game story? Instead of moaning that video game stories are crap compared to some films, what are good stand out stories in games that show what a game can produce, so that story in games can be compared to other games. For every great movie story, there are 50 books that are better. For every pun filled super-hero film, there are 15 graphic novels that outshine them. You can't compare different mediums stories against each other as how they are told and portrayed are so different.

Video game medium is still hung up on the idea it's entertainment media has to be compared to that of films because films are still more popular as an entertainment media even if games make more money.

Yeah, I think you get the core of what I think too. I want to add that Jim Sterling showed clips from Undertale, Journey and Celeste in the background as he spoke about alternative ways games can transpire story. And I think these are also good examples. None of these games try to be movies, but they use things exclusive to games to tell their story. Quite artfully too.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:

Yeah, I think you get the core of what I think too. I want to add that Jim Sterling showed clips from Undertale, Journey and Celeste in the background as he spoke about alternative ways games can transpire story. And I think these are also good examples. None of these games try to be movies, but they use things exclusive to games to tell their story. Quite artfully too.

Ha, didn't help I was listening to it while at work instead of watching. :P

Undertale is seemingly a good option, it seems that the great stories of video games are told in the games that truely developer their stories through gameplay, it's how the medium is meant to be after all. 



Hmm, pie.

I'm glad he came forward and said something I'd believed for years.  Instead of comparisons to Schindler's List, I'd rather talk about Citizen Kane though.  Lots of game developers want to see the "Citizen Kane of video games", but they don't understand why Citizen Kane was an important movie.

Film makers and cinephiles realize that film used to imitate theatre a lot as a medium.  Orson Welles was considered a genius, because he developed a lot of techniques in Citizen Kane to further film as a medium.  For example he used camera angles to enhance story telling which is something that theatre could never do.  Citizen Kane showed how film could actually be a better medium for story telling because it was a different medium.  It didn't have to imitate another medium any longer.

That is why it is extremely ironic to say "this is a piece of great art" when it is a video game trying to be like a movie.  Games like The Last of Us might be fun, but they do not further gaming as a medium.  A game like Undertale tells a story while actually leveraging the unique strengths of gaming.  Or there is Dark Souls, which is so influential that now every innovative game is compared to Dark Souls.  These games are a lot closer to what a "Citizen Kane of gaming" looks like, because they actually advance gaming as a unique medium instead of trying to imitate film.



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This was largely my issue with the first Last of Us. It was a fun game, but it felt like it kept asking me to think of it like a movie, and every time I did, it fell flat. I'm sure it had a "better story" than a lot of games I've preferred, but I do not believe its storytelling leveraged the strengths of the medium which makes its flaws stick out even more.



I love how much hate cinematic and heavy story telling gets on vgc.

"it isn't videogame"

"the focus should be gameplay"

"photorealism is bad"

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 23 June 2020

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Can't help but think he sounds a bit up his own arse there. I know that's generally his persona, but all of this "higher form of art" bullshit is especially pretentious.



DonFerrari said:

I love how much hate cinematic and heavy story telling gets on vgc.

"it isn't videogame"

"the focus should be gameplay"

"photorealism is bad"

Nobody in this thread said any of that. You're creating a strawmen. The actual argument is, that video games and movies are different genres with differing strengths and weaknesses.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

I love how much hate cinematic and heavy story telling gets on vgc.

"it isn't videogame"

"the focus should be gameplay"

"photorealism is bad"

Nobody in this thread said any of that. You're creating a strawmen. The actual argument is, that video games and movies are different genres with differing strengths and weaknesses.

Yes.... and the jabs at TLOU for trying to copy movies that are also used on several games with heavy narrative focus.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."