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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Jimquisition about movie comparisons, crunch and TLOU2

I'm glad he came forward and said something I'd believed for years.  Instead of comparisons to Schindler's List, I'd rather talk about Citizen Kane though.  Lots of game developers want to see the "Citizen Kane of video games", but they don't understand why Citizen Kane was an important movie.

Film makers and cinephiles realize that film used to imitate theatre a lot as a medium.  Orson Welles was considered a genius, because he developed a lot of techniques in Citizen Kane to further film as a medium.  For example he used camera angles to enhance story telling which is something that theatre could never do.  Citizen Kane showed how film could actually be a better medium for story telling because it was a different medium.  It didn't have to imitate another medium any longer.

That is why it is extremely ironic to say "this is a piece of great art" when it is a video game trying to be like a movie.  Games like The Last of Us might be fun, but they do not further gaming as a medium.  A game like Undertale tells a story while actually leveraging the unique strengths of gaming.  Or there is Dark Souls, which is so influential that now every innovative game is compared to Dark Souls.  These games are a lot closer to what a "Citizen Kane of gaming" looks like, because they actually advance gaming as a unique medium instead of trying to imitate film.



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This was largely my issue with the first Last of Us. It was a fun game, but it felt like it kept asking me to think of it like a movie, and every time I did, it fell flat. I'm sure it had a "better story" than a lot of games I've preferred, but I do not believe its storytelling leveraged the strengths of the medium which makes its flaws stick out even more.



I love how much hate cinematic and heavy story telling gets on vgc.

"it isn't videogame"

"the focus should be gameplay"

"photorealism is bad"

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 23 June 2020

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

I love how much hate cinematic and heavy story telling gets on vgc.

"it isn't videogame"

"the focus should be gameplay"

"photorealism is bad"

Nobody in this thread said any of that. You're creating a strawmen. The actual argument is, that video games and movies are different genres with differing strengths and weaknesses.



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Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

I love how much hate cinematic and heavy story telling gets on vgc.

"it isn't videogame"

"the focus should be gameplay"

"photorealism is bad"

Nobody in this thread said any of that. You're creating a strawmen. The actual argument is, that video games and movies are different genres with differing strengths and weaknesses.

Yes.... and the jabs at TLOU for trying to copy movies that are also used on several games with heavy narrative focus.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Mnementh said:

Nobody in this thread said any of that. You're creating a strawmen. The actual argument is, that video games and movies are different genres with differing strengths and weaknesses.

Yes.... and the jabs at TLOU for trying to copy movies that are also used on several games with heavy narrative focus.

I actually understood the video hinting that the game is good. Just not comparable to Schindler's List.

he didn't jab against TLOU2, he did though jab against Studio bosses that try to spin media narratives around their games and show testiness once people don't buy that narrative, while at the same time said studio bosses exploit their employees for money. So not a jab against the game, but a jab against really bad practices in the industry.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes.... and the jabs at TLOU for trying to copy movies that are also used on several games with heavy narrative focus.

I actually understood the video hinting that the game is good. Just not comparable to Schindler's List.

he didn't jab against TLOU2, he did though jab against Studio bosses that try to spin media narratives around their games and show testiness once people don't buy that narrative, while at the same time said studio bosses exploit their employees for money. So not a jab against the game, but a jab against really bad practices in the industry.

Wasn`t talking about Jim, see that I said that a lot of hate for cinematic and heavy storydriven narratives exist in VGC.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Mnementh said:

I actually understood the video hinting that the game is good. Just not comparable to Schindler's List.

he didn't jab against TLOU2, he did though jab against Studio bosses that try to spin media narratives around their games and show testiness once people don't buy that narrative, while at the same time said studio bosses exploit their employees for money. So not a jab against the game, but a jab against really bad practices in the industry.

Wasn`t talking about Jim, see that I said that a lot of hate for cinematic and heavy storydriven narratives exist in VGC.

Possibly. But did that actually transpire in this thread?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

Wasn`t talking about Jim, see that I said that a lot of hate for cinematic and heavy storydriven narratives exist in VGC.

Possibly. But did that actually transpire in this thread?

We had couple jabs against TLOU trying to be a movie.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Good 'ole Jim, great video.