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Forums - Politics Discussion - Do We Really Want a New Cold War?

sethnintendo said:
Mnementh said:

The US cooperates with Saudi-Arabia and other dictatorships around the world. And I dunno - China has made much improvements for it's people over the past year. I would argue that life for the normal chinese citizen was never better in general. That doesn't mean everything is fine, but what I see is a lot of improvement for the people living in China. Isn't that what you want, a better life for the people at the bottom?

Did they stop the Muslim "re-education" camps?

Did I say, that everything is fine? No, I wrote it in the text you quoted. But I said things got better for most of the people. Are we at the end of the road? No, we are at the beginning. But a war, cold or hot, will not make things better about this, and it will certainly make things worse for a hundreds of millions chinese. So if your intention is to make things better, than the militaristic or even economic pressure just isn't rational.

And also, I mentioned that the US has no problem with Saudi Arabia. Saudi's de facto leader Mohammed bin Salman defended these camps.



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Mnementh said:
OTBWY said:

3. I'd rather not cooperate with dictatorships. You can make the mistake of empowering them even more.

The US cooperates with Saudi-Arabia and other dictatorships around the world. And I dunno - China has made much improvements for it's people over the past year. I would argue that life for the normal chinese citizen was never better in general. That doesn't mean everything is fine, but what I see is a lot of improvement for the people living in China. Isn't that what you want, a better life for the people at the bottom?

I'm not saying that it's all good, far from it. The US has a lot of issues. But it's not an authoritarian state like the others.

I don't know what is so good for the Chinese people, if you're talking about economic benefits sure. They had an economic boom. But in the last few years China has become more authoritarian, like implementing a 1984 esque social credit system. It's one of those things out of many that seem to look like a bad direction for that country.



OTBWY said:
China, unlike Russia, engages in soft power. It uses the means of subversion and slow coercion to slowly extend its influence and strengthen its position. It doesn't invade countries or sends mercs/pmc's like Russia does (though they do have their online paid troll farms), China does it more in an economic sense.

However, it is no different than what Russia does. It is trying to expand at the expense of others. It is extremely nationalistic and authoritarian/dictatorial. It must be checked like any other aggressive country.

Ah the arrogance, superiority complex and ignorance of Americans. Just for all the people acting all Hugh and mighty about the US and it's so called "Superior moral values," The US and Russia weren't different to the rest of the world. Both were super powers flexing their muscles and forcing countries to choose instead of letting them decide on their own. 

The US has been expanding at the expense of others, it is extremely nationalistic and more and more oligarchic by the year. The US must be checked forest and foremost as The Empire is the biggest threat to global peace and security. The US must be stopped from starting a war with China in all it's arrogance and ignorance.

The Bush regime alone is responsible for 1 million+ deaths in Iraq. And then we have how much money US made in WW1 and WW2 selling weapons to both sides. Yes US sold weapons to Nazi Germany and continued to for a long time. It didn't join the war for some moral reason, it joined because of pearl harbour and the US didn't do much in the European theatre either. Then you have all the coups and deployment of puppet rulers and dictators in South America over the centuries. Destroying Iranian democracy is also on the US's achievement list. Than you have Vietnam, and the Obama regime's attack on Libya and Syria. Afghanistan which no one understands what the reason was and they still don't, even the Americans as the Afghan papers reveal. Oh and the illegal drone strikes, producing and using more bombs than any other country, the torture programs like what they did in Abu ghuraib and do in Gitmo. 

The US has been an evil negative force internationally for a long time and it was better domestically but it's declining in that department as well. The Empire is crumbling. You know what happened when workers went on strike for this Pandemic and their treatment? The companies just used prison labour to replace them. The rich were bailed out in '08 and the poor left high and dry, and in this crisis, the same happened. Billionaires are making billions more, the stock market is happy, the government is giving them as much money as they ask for while the poor can't get simple things like emergency pay for essential workers, temporary monthly payments for those who can't work, covering the cost of their healthcare, etc. 

China is still worse domestically what with the treatment of Uyughurs but internationally, China is much better than the imperialist US and Soviet Union, for now. I would much rather have the soft power of China than the bullying of the US. And the world sees you as a much bigger threat and rightfully so. Check any polling done worldwide. The Americans need to stop acting all high and mighty and go look in the mirror. First solve the problems of your own empire before talking about another potential one. The US, just like China, is a hindrance to the high morals you speak of.



I find it quite ironic how Americans speaking so much ill of China, whether justified or not(propaganda of the US usually makes things sound worse than they are), are not looking at the mirror and seeing the evils, corruption, greed and harm of their own empire. How their regimes have ravaged the world and caused so much harm. I agree that China's intentions are not benevolent and they have selfish desires that trump the value of human life for them but the US is worse than China in that department. The US doesn't value human life or rights either.



John2290 said:
Arguing about China in the current year must be what it felt like to a westerner in the 30's arguing about why facism was an evil that needed to be dealth with. It's so fucking crazy that people can't see the problem, I guess the CCP's infiltration of the west happened at a large and effective scale. R.I.P freedom.

Hahahahaha sorry but that statement is so damn funny when it's not even trying to be. You're so needlessly overdramstic and comparing China to Nazi Germany. The US has done a lot more things that Nazi Germany did compared to China, at least for now. 



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Eagle367 said:
I find it quite ironic how Americans speaking so much ill of China, whether justified or not(propaganda of the US usually makes things sound worse than they are), are not looking at the mirror and seeing the evils, corruption, greed and harm of their own empire. How their regimes have ravaged the world and caused so much harm. I agree that China's intentions are not benevolent and they have selfish desires that trump the value of human life for them but the US is worse than China in that department. The US doesn't value human life or rights either.

The USA values human life. The USA is against abortion.



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Mnementh said:
sethnintendo said:

Did they stop the Muslim "re-education" camps?

Did I say, that everything is fine? No, I wrote it in the text you quoted. But I said things got better for most of the people. Are we at the end of the road? No, we are at the beginning. But a war, cold or hot, will not make things better about this, and it will certainly make things worse for a hundreds of millions chinese. So if your intention is to make things better, than the militaristic or even economic pressure just isn't rational.

And also, I mentioned that the US has no problem with Saudi Arabia. Saudi's de facto leader Mohammed bin Salman defended these camps.

Yes he probably defended camps because China buys a lot of Saudi oil.  Also China probably supplies Saudi Arabia weapons so they can bomb more food markets and schools in Yemen.

I believe US should stay out of most conflicts because apparently my country does more harm then good usually.  I don't mind seeing China or others try take role in policing world because they will probably fail just like we did.  Maybe not as bad.



RolStoppable said:
Eagle367 said:
I find it quite ironic how Americans speaking so much ill of China, whether justified or not(propaganda of the US usually makes things sound worse than they are), are not looking at the mirror and seeing the evils, corruption, greed and harm of their own empire. How their regimes have ravaged the world and caused so much harm. I agree that China's intentions are not benevolent and they have selfish desires that trump the value of human life for them but the US is worse than China in that department. The US doesn't value human life or rights either.

The USA values human life. The USA is against abortion.

Nope it does not one bit considering the million plus dead in Iraq, all the war mongering in the middle east, all the instalment of dictators in South Africa and Iran, supporting Saudi Arabia in genocide in Yemen and terrorism, supporting Israel on apartheid, the fact that it was considering attacking it's own citizens and blaming it on Cuba when the missile crisis was happening, the fact that it sells weapons to both sides in many wars including back in WW2, the fact that it chose to drop the atomic bomb and do it twice when historians say Japan was ready to surrender, how it treats it's poor and middle class nowadays, etc. And I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of things.

Edit: Dang it Role you got me again, you massive troll.

Last edited by Eagle367 - on 25 May 2020

sethnintendo said:
Mnementh said:

Did I say, that everything is fine? No, I wrote it in the text you quoted. But I said things got better for most of the people. Are we at the end of the road? No, we are at the beginning. But a war, cold or hot, will not make things better about this, and it will certainly make things worse for a hundreds of millions chinese. So if your intention is to make things better, than the militaristic or even economic pressure just isn't rational.

And also, I mentioned that the US has no problem with Saudi Arabia. Saudi's de facto leader Mohammed bin Salman defended these camps.

Yes he probably defended camps because China buys a lot of Saudi oil.  Also China probably supplies Saudi Arabia weapons so they can bomb more food markets and schools in Yemen.

I believe US should stay out of most conflicts because apparently my country does more harm then good usually.  I don't mind seeing China or others try take role in policing world because they will probably fail just like we did.  Maybe not as bad.

Thing is your country would if it valued human life and the ideals it likes to force on others. But the US values only profit. Cold, ruthless, oligarchic Capitalism. I think New Zealand or some country like that should morally lead the world. They have a lot more credibility and people would actually take them seriously instead of having looks of confusion when it's citizens pretend like they live in a utopia with the best morals and rights,



Eagle367 said:
sethnintendo said:

Yes he probably defended camps because China buys a lot of Saudi oil.  Also China probably supplies Saudi Arabia weapons so they can bomb more food markets and schools in Yemen.

I believe US should stay out of most conflicts because apparently my country does more harm then good usually.  I don't mind seeing China or others try take role in policing world because they will probably fail just like we did.  Maybe not as bad.

Thing is your country would if it valued human life and the ideals it likes to force on others. But the US values only profit. Cold, ruthless, oligarchic Capitalism. I think New Zealand or some country like that should morally lead the world. They have a lot more credibility and people would actually take them seriously instead of having looks of confusion when it's citizens pretend like they live in a utopia with the best morals and rights,

Well there is a thing called the UN but it has no backbone.  UN peace keeping forces can hardly even keep peace anywhere.