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Forums - Politics Discussion - Are you OK with games becoming more Politically Correct?

Tagged games:

 

Is PC ruining gaming?

Yes 19 31.67%
 
No, you're just being silly! Ah 41 68.33%
 
Total:60
sundin13 said:
DonFerrari said:

So also not gaining anything so why put it in?

Do you actually believe that though? While "political correctness" may be a buzzword that has lost most of its meaning, at the end of the day, "political correctness" is why nobody seriously does blackface any more and why the n-word is generally avoided. I think we can all acknowledge that racism in media was damaging throughout the 20th century. Political correctness is not a bad thing.

At its heart, political correctness is not doing or saying things that hurt people.

This is an entertainment medium. Good stories shouldn't be predicated upon hurting or attacking segments of the audience for how they were born. If you cannot extract that from the story, there are probably bigger issues with the story. What we are gaining from much of this is an audience who doesn't feel attacked by the art that was created to entertain them. While you may not be offended or you may not agree, I think we can acknowledge objectively that more people enjoying a game is something gained.

Now, that isn't to say that political correctness can't be abused. Of course it can. But to treat the entire idea, as invalid because some people are stupid is falling back on the buzzword that doesn't mean anything and just swinging fists at the evil SJW bogeyman.

I think that’s the idea, that there is no universally agreed definition of just how much PC injected is good. Some go hard and abuse it and others are more light touch. If one side doesn’t get a standard defined then the other side has no choice but to point out the worst aspects, despite not being representative of everyone’s beliefs. 

Personally, in regards to video games, history based games shouldn’t be tampered with and rewritten to give a more left wing idealized version of historical events. History should teach us where we came from so we learn from it. 

By all means make new IPs with whatever narrative developers want and let the market decide. But then I draw the line at reworking time tested gaming IPs to shoehorn in PC culture. Letting the market decide gets tricky when you messing with gamers favourite IPs. 

As far as real life goes, in case people make unjust comparisons about me, everybody should be respectful and tolerant of the diversity in our society. Say what you want but be mindful of who you are speaking to. If you get offended or offend...it’s not the end of the world. Someone should apologize and that should be the end of it. I don’t believe in policed speech, that just sounds like left-wing fascism. 



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sales2099 said:
sundin13 said:

Do you actually believe that though? While "political correctness" may be a buzzword that has lost most of its meaning, at the end of the day, "political correctness" is why nobody seriously does blackface any more and why the n-word is generally avoided. I think we can all acknowledge that racism in media was damaging throughout the 20th century. Political correctness is not a bad thing.

At its heart, political correctness is not doing or saying things that hurt people.

This is an entertainment medium. Good stories shouldn't be predicated upon hurting or attacking segments of the audience for how they were born. If you cannot extract that from the story, there are probably bigger issues with the story. What we are gaining from much of this is an audience who doesn't feel attacked by the art that was created to entertain them. While you may not be offended or you may not agree, I think we can acknowledge objectively that more people enjoying a game is something gained.

Now, that isn't to say that political correctness can't be abused. Of course it can. But to treat the entire idea, as invalid because some people are stupid is falling back on the buzzword that doesn't mean anything and just swinging fists at the evil SJW bogeyman.

I think that’s the idea, that there is no universally agreed definition of just how much PC injected is good. Some go hard and abuse it and others are more light touch. If one side doesn’t get a standard defined then the other side has no choice but to point out the worst aspects, despite not being representative of everyone’s beliefs. 

Personally, in regards to video games, history based games shouldn’t be tampered with and rewritten to give a more left wing idealized version of historical events. History should teach us where we came from so we learn from it. 

By all means make new IPs with whatever narrative developers want and let the market decide. But then I draw the line at reworking time tested gaming IPs to shoehorn in PC culture. Letting the market decide gets tricky when you messing with gamers favourite IPs. 

As far as real life goes, in case people make unjust comparisons about me, everybody should be respectful and tolerant of the diversity in our society. Say what you want but be mindful of who you are speaking to. If you get offended or offend...it’s not the end of the world. Someone should apologize and that should be the end of it. I don’t believe in policed speech, that just sounds like left-wing fascism. 

In regards to history based video games, it really depends on the intent of the work. Just because something takes place during a certain time in the past, doesn't mean that the intent is to be documentarian. We regularly see changes in historical video games regarding the technology available in that era, however I virtually never see complaint about this, but if you throw a woman into a battle that didn't involve women, all of the sudden everybody loses their minds. I think that provides us with an opportunity to sit back and reflect on our personal biases. Fact is, in almost any adaptation, whether it is adapting a book into a movie, or adapting a historical event into a piece of art, you will see a number of changes for any number of different reasons. Distance from the source material, whether fiction or non-fiction, is not a measure of quality. That is something that must be determined independently.

You also make a comment about how we should leave the change to the new IPs, and keep the old ones how they were, but the phrase "adapt or die" comes to mind. Franchises regularly reinvent themselves, and if they hold true and stay consistent, many will struggle to continue to provide reasons for people to purchase them. We, as gamers, demand change, though we reserve the right to criticize if that change is in a direction that we do not like. Sometimes those changes will be for the worse. Express what you will about the changes, but to turn your back on the very notion of change is to simply be blind to the reality of what people want, and the reality of the industry.

Because it isn't that people don't like when their favorite games change. Look at Breath of the Wild. That was probably the biggest departure in the series since OoT, and it is considered one of the best games of the generation. It is that they are looking at a specific change that they didn't like and trying to use it as a rule even though that doesn't really fit with reality. "PC" changes are no different. Often, they simply take the form of giving a character more depth. Maybe don't just write the female lead as a personality-less titty monster. Give her a character and a motivation, and you've turned a avatar to create porn of into someone that people actually care about.

I would also like to comment quickly on your final comment: "I don't believe in policed speech, that just sounds like left-wing fascism". Again, I will ask you to sit back and examine your biases. The policing of speech is not left-wing. While the right-wing religious outrage and "policing of speech" of the 20th century has largely faded, there are numerous examples of right-wing censorship throughout history, and we still often see demands regarding what can and cannot be said coming from those on the modern right.



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melbye said:

Changing something for a minority of snowflake narcissists who think they are oppressed is fucking stupid

Demanding you change something back for minority snowflake narcissists who think they are oppressed by PC is fucking stupid.

JRPGfan said:
Mnementh said:

In this screenshot you providing: "This is a parody."
So, apparently you are unfunny.

I know that its ment to be a parody.
It proves my point though (hence why I used it).

Im not buying a fat batman comic.

Of course you're not buying it.  It doesn't exist.  How they hell can a non-existent comic (only a parody that isn't real) prove your point that PC culture in comics has gone too far? You're trying to use something fake to prove something real. 

Snoorlax said:
sundin13 said:

Are you trying to tell me that no democrat has ever played a video game?

Or that you can't be both creative and a democrat?

There is a loud minority that has definitely played a couple of games but whether they appreciate these games for what they are, artistically, or hate it for what is isn't is the real question.

In most PC- cases they hate the game for what it isn't and want everybody else to change the game to align it more to their PC believes or else everybody else is a racist homophobe, MK 11 is a clear example of that and that's my problem with Western entertainment these days.

and to answer your last question no they're not creative, they just change what's already there to their own political believes and forces everybody else to like it.

I hear if you say something wrong enough times......it's still wrong.

I'm sure Last Man Standing isn't formulaic or pandering is just filled with creativity.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Metallox said:
DonFerrari said:

So also not gaining anything so why put it in?

To have less outdated notions about society. Then again, you can actually, indeed, make almost whatever you want. Just don't expect a warm welcome from everyone. Market will speak. 

And here is exactly the case that the market is speaking and not doing worm welcome of bad changes.

Also several times the game isn`t talking about society, much less current one, so there isn`t really a need to "update society". The cases brought were mostly in this way. Again as I said, if you are creating a new IP or showing something current then sure use the standard of the society you are trying to show.

sundin13 said:
DonFerrari said:

So also not gaining anything so why put it in?

Do you actually believe that though? While "political correctness" may be a buzzword that has lost most of its meaning, at the end of the day, "political correctness" is why nobody seriously does blackface any more and why the n-word is generally avoided. I think we can all acknowledge that racism in media was damaging throughout the 20th century. Political correctness is not a bad thing.

At its heart, political correctness is not doing or saying things that hurt people.

This is an entertainment medium. Good stories shouldn't be predicated upon hurting or attacking segments of the audience for how they were born. If you cannot extract that from the story, there are probably bigger issues with the story. What we are gaining from much of this is an audience who doesn't feel attacked by the art that was created to entertain them. While you may not be offended or you may not agree, I think we can acknowledge objectively that more people enjoying a game is something gained.

Now, that isn't to say that political correctness can't be abused. Of course it can. But to treat the entire idea, as invalid because some people are stupid is falling back on the buzzword that doesn't mean anything and just swinging fists at the evil SJW bogeyman.

It is just impossible to say or do things without hurting people. I have seem some here do personal attacks, intently trying to harm others, but none of the PC defenders stood up against it. So it is always something of trying to make collective responsibility on the back of others to nullify personal responsibility.

If you read the other posts I done you`ll see that I have no issues with stories that focus on left wing ideals or the like. But when you have a dominated field pushing for that you really aren`t benefiting the market. And many people take offense on changing the IPs to what they don`t want, but these people have to accept it because "they want to have fun while hurting others"?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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I don't think political correctness has a very big impact on gaming. It's always been a bit of a "boogie man" so to speak. It's not like this guy has come to school the gaming community =P



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

sundin13 said:
sales2099 said:

I think that’s the idea, that there is no universally agreed definition of just how much PC injected is good. Some go hard and abuse it and others are more light touch. If one side doesn’t get a standard defined then the other side has no choice but to point out the worst aspects, despite not being representative of everyone’s beliefs. 

Personally, in regards to video games, history based games shouldn’t be tampered with and rewritten to give a more left wing idealized version of historical events. History should teach us where we came from so we learn from it. 

By all means make new IPs with whatever narrative developers want and let the market decide. But then I draw the line at reworking time tested gaming IPs to shoehorn in PC culture. Letting the market decide gets tricky when you messing with gamers favourite IPs. 

As far as real life goes, in case people make unjust comparisons about me, everybody should be respectful and tolerant of the diversity in our society. Say what you want but be mindful of who you are speaking to. If you get offended or offend...it’s not the end of the world. Someone should apologize and that should be the end of it. I don’t believe in policed speech, that just sounds like left-wing fascism. 

In regards to history based video games, it really depends on the intent of the work. Just because something takes place during a certain time in the past, doesn't mean that the intent is to be documentarian. We regularly see changes in historical video games regarding the technology available in that era, however I virtually never see complaint about this, but if you throw a woman into a battle that didn't involve women, all of the sudden everybody loses their minds. I think that provides us with an opportunity to sit back and reflect on our personal biases. Fact is, in almost any adaptation, whether it is adapting a book into a movie, or adapting a historical event into a piece of art, you will see a number of changes for any number of different reasons. Distance from the source material, whether fiction or non-fiction, is not a measure of quality. That is something that must be determined independently.

You also make a comment about how we should leave the change to the new IPs, and keep the old ones how they were, but the phrase "adapt or die" comes to mind. Franchises regularly reinvent themselves, and if they hold true and stay consistent, many will struggle to continue to provide reasons for people to purchase them. We, as gamers, demand change, though we reserve the right to criticize if that change is in a direction that we do not like. Sometimes those changes will be for the worse. Express what you will about the changes, but to turn your back on the very notion of change is to simply be blind to the reality of what people want, and the reality of the industry.

Because it isn't that people don't like when their favorite games change. Look at Breath of the Wild. That was probably the biggest departure in the series since OoT, and it is considered one of the best games of the generation. It is that they are looking at a specific change that they didn't like and trying to use it as a rule even though that doesn't really fit with reality. "PC" changes are no different. Often, they simply take the form of giving a character more depth. Maybe don't just write the female lead as a personality-less titty monster. Give her a character and a motivation, and you've turned a avatar to create porn of into someone that people actually care about.

I would also like to comment quickly on your final comment: "I don't believe in policed speech, that just sounds like left-wing fascism". Again, I will ask you to sit back and examine your biases. The policing of speech is not left-wing. While the right-wing religious outrage and "policing of speech" of the 20th century has largely faded, there are numerous examples of right-wing censorship throughout history, and we still often see demands regarding what can and cannot be said coming from those on the modern right.

The history comment is interesting, I do agree that different weapons are tolerated but women amputees on the frontlines are complained about. In that case it comes down to practicality. If weapons were true to the era (especially WW1) it just wouldn’t be as fun from a gameplay perspective. Guns didn’t fire fast and that just isn’t fun. But the women thing for many would take you out of the immersion in the period.

Im all for women in gaming, Hellblade is my favourite new IP of the gen, and that’s about a female warrior in historical 8th century Ireland. But they made it work with amazing storytelling, not shoehorning her in because “reasons”.

I’d say “adapt or die” applies more to gameplay and design then the story of games. Breath of the wild is a great example of this. But I don’t think storytelling in video games needs to “adapt or die”, unless it’s with new IPs because it’s a fresh slate and all. 

We are both pushing agendas here. But at least I like to maintain a stance to leave history as intact as reasonably possible and leave time tested IPs politically neutral.

While we both agree the past has a lot of right wing censorship. But you honestly can’t tell me left wing people don’t police speech. “Micro aggression” and “trigger warning” are not right wing terms and the subsequent outrage (Twitter mobs) and shaming when instances do happen. The pendulum is merely swinging in the other direction now. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 31 March 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
sundin13 said:

In regards to history based video games, it really depends on the intent of the work. Just because something takes place during a certain time in the past, doesn't mean that the intent is to be documentarian. We regularly see changes in historical video games regarding the technology available in that era, however I virtually never see complaint about this, but if you throw a woman into a battle that didn't involve women, all of the sudden everybody loses their minds. I think that provides us with an opportunity to sit back and reflect on our personal biases. Fact is, in almost any adaptation, whether it is adapting a book into a movie, or adapting a historical event into a piece of art, you will see a number of changes for any number of different reasons. Distance from the source material, whether fiction or non-fiction, is not a measure of quality. That is something that must be determined independently.

You also make a comment about how we should leave the change to the new IPs, and keep the old ones how they were, but the phrase "adapt or die" comes to mind. Franchises regularly reinvent themselves, and if they hold true and stay consistent, many will struggle to continue to provide reasons for people to purchase them. We, as gamers, demand change, though we reserve the right to criticize if that change is in a direction that we do not like. Sometimes those changes will be for the worse. Express what you will about the changes, but to turn your back on the very notion of change is to simply be blind to the reality of what people want, and the reality of the industry.

Because it isn't that people don't like when their favorite games change. Look at Breath of the Wild. That was probably the biggest departure in the series since OoT, and it is considered one of the best games of the generation. It is that they are looking at a specific change that they didn't like and trying to use it as a rule even though that doesn't really fit with reality. "PC" changes are no different. Often, they simply take the form of giving a character more depth. Maybe don't just write the female lead as a personality-less titty monster. Give her a character and a motivation, and you've turned a avatar to create porn of into someone that people actually care about.

I would also like to comment quickly on your final comment: "I don't believe in policed speech, that just sounds like left-wing fascism". Again, I will ask you to sit back and examine your biases. The policing of speech is not left-wing. While the right-wing religious outrage and "policing of speech" of the 20th century has largely faded, there are numerous examples of right-wing censorship throughout history, and we still often see demands regarding what can and cannot be said coming from those on the modern right.

The history comment is interesting, I do agree that different weapons are tolerated but women amputees on the frontlines are complained about. In that case it comes down to practicality. If weapons were true to the era (especially WW1) it just wouldn’t be as fun from a gameplay perspective. Guns didn’t fire fast and that just isn’t fun. But the women thing for many would take you out of the immersion in the period.

Im all for women in gaming, Hellblade is my favourite new IP of the gen, and that’s about a female warrior in historical 8th century Ireland. But they made it work with amazing storytelling, not shoehorning her in because “reasons”.

I’d say “adapt or die” applies more to gameplay and design then the story of games. Breath of the wild is a great example of this. But I don’t think storytelling in video games needs to “adapt or die”, unless it’s with new IPs because it’s a fresh slate and all. 

We are both pushing agendas here. But at least I like to maintain a stance to leave history as intact as reasonably possible and leave time tested IPs politically neutral.

While we both agree the past has a lot of right wing censorship. But you honestly can’t tell me left wing people don’t police speech. “Micro aggression” and “trigger warning” are not right wing terms and the subsequent outrage (Twitter mobs) and shaming when instances do happen. The pendulum is merely swinging in the other direction now. 

I would point out that due to gameplay and enjoyment games with sword fight also aren`t that accurate in combat. But there are games where both swordplay is quite accurate and also some where the weapons are similar in performance, some people like them.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Spindel said:

In before people getting upset over silly things like nerfed boob physics

You think that's silly? How about people getting upset that Princess Peach needs to be saved again or that Princess Kitana's clothing slightly reveals her breas- CENSOR THAT SHIT! 

sundin13 said:

I don't think this is PC culture running rampant and destroying muh gaems, it is just people asking for better written stories which is an entirely natural criticism and expectation...

No, they aren't asking for a better written story they just don't like Homosexuals to be portrayed in a slightly negative tone even if it was meant as a joke not meant to hurt anybody. Would you tell a stand up comedian that he can't make race related jokes? Or only if it's about White people?

While criticism is valid, expecting the game to change it's content because you feel like it, is PC culture running rampant.

Shiken said:

 I do not agree with certain versions being censored over other simply because over sensitive people might get "offended".

I agree, unfortunately we western gamers might never get the true version of Snatchers, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Xenoblade Chronicles X or Fire Emblem Fates and other games i can't think of right now.

Shadow1980 said:
Not necessarily.

I do think we could use more games with progressive-minded viewpoints in the stories, with better representation among lead protagonists. More women. More non-whites. More LGBT people. And, as TV Tropes would put it, some anvils need to be dropped.

I agree we could use some NEW GAMES that feature more non-whites, lgbt and female leads with a purpose to the story of the game. Not adding these traits to famous videogames that have no need for any of it other than to cater to people who don't like the game in the first place.

Jpcc86 said:

people were turned off by Horizon at first because the MC was female and they "couldnt relate" and then the game turned out to be fantastic. Either way, I rather games have moral/political commentary than to just be plain moronic like Duke Nukem. But thats me, moronic games like that have an audience as well. 

Strange that people would be turned off by Horizon when we have female gaming leads since forever, it's not anything new.

Games that are not PC or "plain moronic" like you'd call them definitely have their audience because gamers first and foremost generally don't care for real life social politics in their games which is why Duke Nukem used to be so succesful for being a good game with funny writing, Duke Nukem didn't turn me into a sexist or see women as sex objects i just took them as a joke as anyone who played the game should.

sundin13 said:
Snoorlax said:

Actually, i'm in for a fair market. But either way i don't see any PC actually buying and streaming these games online because they really don't give a damn about it look at how terrible the Star Wars movies have performed over the years? Did the forced changes by the free market work? Didn't think so.

MK11 was the fifth best selling game of 2019. Fire Emblem Three Houses is the best selling game in the franchise. RE5 was the best selling game in the series when it released.  I'd say that their appeals to the free market are doing just fine.

But don't worry comrade. If you ever want to seize the means of production to distribute games to the proletariat, hit me up.

Oh really? Yeah let's take a look at Mk11's metacritic user score

3.3 doesn't sound very positive now does it? It's filled with microtransactions and pc'd MK something which fans have never asked for in their MK game. Here you can read the comments where fans complain about the politics in Mk11

Resident Evil 5 came out during a time were the WOKE warriors had not taken over the western gaming industry yet, even so RE 5 is considered among the weaker RE games you'd know this if you're familiar with the series. Luckily, Capcom is Japanese and managed to avoid some of the wokeness with some of their latest games.

Last edited by Snoorlax - on 31 March 2020

DonFerrari said:
Snoorlax said:

No, everybody is allowed to have an opinion and i'm okay with that! BUT if you don't like scantally clad women in an established videogame franchise like MK well then maybe play something else? Why try to pressure and change the game for what it's known for? Because it's succesful and popular it needs to cater to those who generally don't like it as well?

That's my problem and it's really happening with Movies, comics and yes even videogames stop lying to yourself. 

That is basically my issue with things. Go and create as many new IPs as you like, there are several heavily politicized themes and IPs I like (even some that are opposite of what I think), but there is no need to hijack what already exist and shoehorn those changes to please people that don't even buy the product.

Exactly, and they're only doing this to established videogame franchises because those are actually popular and bring in lots of money. They wouldn't give two shits about Battlefield, Mk, RE if these games weren't million sellers.

and starting an entirely new IP with PC fundamentals is too much work and would probably flop anyways, so it's much easier to change what's already there like Star Wars.