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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

JRPGfan said:
Alex_The_Hedgehog said:

That's good. Here in Brazil we have CoronaVac (From China) and Oxford (From India) and we are waiting for the Sputnik V (Russia).

It looks like a lot, but Brazil is a very large country and the population is huge, so we need an insane amount of doses in order to vaccinate everybody at the risk group.

As if things weren't complicated enough, some people are "cheating" the system to be vaccinated ahead of people at the risk group.

How good are those versions? China's and India's?
Out of those 3, ironically I think I'd trust the russian version the most.
(I've seen a video with Dr John Campbell going over the study data from Sputnik V)

There are a bunch of people in Brazil that still doesn't trust the CoronaVac (China). This got worse after some tests revealed that it's efficacy against the COVID is close to 50%. Still, the brazilian institute that is working with China says that it's safe and it works after two doses. I don't know, I think I trust the Oxford (India) the most.

I remember the news in Brazil saying that the Sputnik V was one of the most efficient against the virus, but it requires to be stored at really cold temperatures to maintain the efficacy.

Brazil has almost 240.000 deaths and close to 10.000.000 confirmed cases, so I hope the vaccines help us to recover, it doesn't matter where it comes from.



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I would hope the companies could forfeit their patents for COVID-vaccines. This would be very helpful for developing countries and that in turn for everyone.



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The Oxford vaccine becomes the second after Pfizer's to be approved by the World Health Organization:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-16/who-approves-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-emergency-use/13158024

This will allow millions of doses to be delivered to developing nations through the UN's Covax initiative.



Oxford's shot has also just been approved for use here in Australia:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-16/coronavirus-astrazeneca-vaccine-approved-for-use-in-australia/13115784

We've secured permission to produce this one locally, here in my home city of Melbourne, so that we don't have to rely too heavily on imports.



WHO approved vaccines are the ones with Chinese microchips in them, right?



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LurkerJ said:
haxxiy said:

Indeed, this isn't going anywhere. With it being more contagious than the seasonal flu, it will become a background pandemic, no doubt.

With that said, decades from now, when the children of today, who got and will get exposed repeatedly to COVID19 throughout their adulthood, will naturally have a better immune response to the inevitable seasonal COVID19 as they become adults and elderly and won't develop severe COVID19 illness, and as a result, you'll rarely see people hospitalized with COVID19. If that's actually the case, the best we can do for our generation is to vaccinate those who are at risk of severe COVID19 illness and open things up for the children of today and let nature take its course.

I wonder if I haven't had the common cold 50 times as a child what would've happened to me if I was only exposed to it when I am 40 or 50 (as I am sure you know the common cold 2nd most common cause is the coronavirus). I do question if we're doing kids a disservice by keeping them at home and "protecting" them from all the different microbes out there, I doubt few months would cause problems but this can't be the new normal. 

I'm one hundred percent sure that would be the case. Take polio, for instance. On the surface, a common enterovirus. It didn't trouble children and young adults until sanitation began to improve in the 19th century and viral exposure diminished. Then it became a true epidemic as opposed to a weird disease some older people would get.

I've seen some people wanting a future where masks and social distancing are common so they don't get sick, but that could end up easily breeding a dozen Covids out of current harmless or rare viruses.

useruserB said:
haxxiy said:

Is a lab origin really that far-fatched? Isn't it the purpose of gain of function research to mimic/re-create how zoonotic spillover events happen but in a more safe, secure and controlled lab environment?? And in a lab setting, you can remove some of the roadblocks and RNG that nature puts up like, frequency/duration of animal to animal/animal to human proximity/contact, co-infection of cells with a specific second virus for recombination potential, that pesky immune system that clears the infection before it can better adapt or spread to another host/species etc...

Everything you just said would have happened far more easily in the wild. Coronaviruses are fairly common in many animals and managed to make the jump to humans and cause pandemics before. Like I mentioned before, people have contact with bats, etc. in Southeastern Asia by the hundreds of thousands. It would just take one chance mutation.

JRPGfan said:
Alex_The_Hedgehog said:

How good are those versions? China's and India's?
Out of those 3, ironically I think I'd trust the russian version the most.
(I've seen a video with Dr John Campbell going over the study data from Sputnik V)

As far as I know, China has one single-dose adenovirus vector vaccine and the rest of China's and India's so far are inactivated vaccines.

It looks like inactivated vaccines land between single-dose (which won't even divulge their efficacy against mild cases) and two-dose vector vaccines, with the added benefit of using the entire virus and, in theory, being less affected by variants with spike mutations.

Easier to adapt too; back then, it took just a few months for inactivated vaccines to be modified for the Asian and Hong Kong flu pandemics.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 16 February 2021

 

 

 

 

 

The over-80s now have the most detectable antibodies compared to other groups in England.



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BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine is less potent against South African variant

Covid-19 jab still works but produces only a third of the antibodies it did for original virus, study finds

Edit: the above is needlessly alarming. Please ignore. Read this instead

Pfizer says South African variant could significantly reduce protective antibodies

(This February 17 story corrects headline and first paragraph to show the reduction was in the protective antibodies elicited by the vaccine, not the protection of the vaccine overall)

(Reuters) - A laboratory study suggests that the South African variant of the coronavirus may reduce protective antibodies elicited by the Pfizer Inc/BioNTech SE vaccine by two-thirds, and it is not clear if the shot will be effective against the mutation, the companies said on Wednesday.

Researchers tested the engineered virus against blood taken from people who had been given the vaccine, and found a two- thirds reduction in the level of neutralizing antibodies compared with its effect on the most common version of the virus prevalent in U.S. trials.

Because there is no established benchmark yet to determine what level of antibodies are needed to protect against the virus, it is unclear whether that two-thirds reduction will render the vaccine ineffective against the variant spreading around the world.

“We don’t know what the minimum neutralizing number is. We don’t have that cutoff line,” he said, adding that he suspects the immune response observed is likely to be significantly above where it needs to be to provide protection.

Even if the concerning variant significantly reduces effectiveness, the vaccine should still help protect against severe disease and death, he noted. Health experts have said that is the most important factor in keeping stretched healthcare systems from becoming overwhelmed.

Moderna published a correspondence in NEJM on Wednesday with similar data previously disclosed elsewhere that showed a sixfold drop antibody levels versus the South African variant.

Moderna also said the actual efficacy of its vaccine against the South African variant is yet to be determined. The company has previously said it believes the vaccine will work against the variant.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-variants-idUSKBN2AH2VG

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 19 February 2021

LurkerJ said:

BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine is less potent against South African variant

Covid-19 jab still works but produces only a third of the antibodies it did for original virus, study finds

This would be production of antibody titers. The antibodies were already there in the blood samples, after all.

Very good numbers overall. Even if it's not enough to outright grant sterilizing immunity, better and more spike-targeting antibodies should promptly be produced by T-cells by way of affinity maturation as soon as cythopathic effects are detected by the immune system.

(fun fact, antibody titers are counted in the geometric or logarithmic scale; people recovering from a natural Covid infection have neutralising antibody titer levels varying from 160 to a whopping 12,400 times depending on the analysis method)

OT - of course, to be protected you need to be sure you are vaccinated to begin with. We have multiple reports going about of the elderly being merely poked or even injected air by healthcare workers instead of being given the vaccine. I honestly would consider this attempted murder, if not by Covid, by the air being injected and potentially causing embolism.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
LurkerJ said:

BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine is less potent against South African variant

Covid-19 jab still works but produces only a third of the antibodies it did for original virus, study finds

This would be production of antibody titers. The antibodies were already there in the blood samples, after all.

Very good numbers overall. Even if it's not enough to outright grant sterilizing immunity, better and more spike-targeting antibodies should promptly be produced by T-cells by way of affinity maturation as soon as cythopathic effects are detected by the immune system.

(fun fact, antibody titers are counted in the geometric or logarithmic scale; people recovering from a natural Covid infection have neutralising antibody titer levels varying from 160 to a whopping 12,400 times depending on the analysis method)

OT - of course, to be protected you need to be sure you are vaccinated to begin with. We have multiple reports going about of the elderly being merely poked or even injected air by healthcare workers instead of being given the vaccine. I honestly would consider this attempted murder, if not by Covid, by the air being injected and potentially causing embolism.

Thanks for clarify, I was going through the headlines only yesterday as I was commuting and copy pasted the financial time headline, a better, more comprehensive article is now included in my previous post. 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 19 February 2021