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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

Just got the news that my sister got COVID.
I'm still waiting on more details on how she got it and whether or not my nephews have it too.
I just hope and pray they're all ok and she makes a full recovery!



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haxxiy said:
JRPGfan said:

You thought the new british mutation (B.1.1.7) of their corona virus was bad?
Now they have a new one.... this one is called E484k, and apparently this one is like the one in Brazil/south africa.

It appears that old anti bodies, your immune system buildt up from haveing the org. Corona virus (covid19), dont offer much protection against it.
This means, you could potentially get sick, first with covid19 (orginal strain or B117) and then get this new one (E484k).
(it also appears that some vaccines arnt as effective at protecting against it, just like the brazil/south african versions).

I seriously hope, these new types dont make their way across europe.
I want the vaccines to work, people get a jab, and then society returns to normal.
If what happends is a new wave, of vaccine resistant covid, starts spreading across the world again.... F***.

When there's a given mutation that is better at avoiding neutralizing antibodies then obviously it's going to spread and become the dominant strain after vaccination, even if you don't import it. The ones detected in the UK mutated in situ, after all; the seeds are already there, and everywhere.

But your immune system isn't stuck with old antibodies as you put it. Antibodies undergo affinity maturation; they become more sensitive to an antigen with time when encountering it. So even if the virus gets in and wiggles around a little bit, does this count as having Covid or just a common cold? Or course, you could still pass it on to someone who never had it, or hasn't been vaccinated, or is severely immunosuppressed...

(This is why people erroneously think viruses get "weaker". They don't. Your immune system just learns how to react to it. For instance, H1N1 mutates every year to become an order of magnitude less sensitive to last season's neutralizing antibodies, and yet it isn't constantly causing 1918-style pandemics.)

I understand some people want it squashed, but it likely isn't going to magically disappear even if you inoculate everyone in the world with mRNA vaccines every trimester. It's going to linger in the background as all the other viruses that have caused pandemics in the past.

Indeed, this isn't going anywhere. With it being more contagious than the seasonal flu, it will become a background pandemic, no doubt.

With that said, decades from now, when the children of today, who got and will get exposed repeatedly to COVID19 throughout their adulthood, will naturally have a better immune response to the inevitable seasonal COVID19 as they become adults and elderly and won't develop severe COVID19 illness, and as a result, you'll rarely see people hospitalized with COVID19. If that's actually the case, the best we can do for our generation is to vaccinate those who are at risk of severe COVID19 illness and open things up for the children of today and let nature take its course.

I wonder if I haven't had the common cold 50 times as a child what would've happened to me if I was only exposed to it when I am 40 or 50 (as I am sure you know the common cold 2nd most common cause is the coronavirus). I do question if we're doing kids a disservice by keeping them at home and "protecting" them from all the different microbes out there, I doubt few months would cause problems but this can't be the new normal. 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 14 February 2021

FINALLY. First doses of the Pfizer vaccine arrive in Australia, with vaccination to begin a week from now, on the 22nd.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-15/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-arrive-australia-rollout/13155726



haxxiy said:
SvennoJ said:

If you reject evolution theory, it becomes a lot harder to accept how viruses naturally pop up.

According to Google, bats make up 1/5th of the mammalian population It is estimated that there are 900 to over 1,200 species of bats in the world, making up one-fifth of Earth's total mammalian population, the second largest order after rodents. Now the virus is around in over 25 million currently infected, probably a lot more undetected on top of that. Constantly replicating with minor mutations, copy errors, while duplicating. No lab can compete with that.

It's now all but certain that Sars-Cov-2 will become endemic. Moving to the younger population (already happening) while becoming more virulent and less deadly. It might eventually end up less deadly than the flu. Of course there's also still a possibility a deadlier strain pops up, however more infectious less deadly strains have the best chance at survival, and will give people some immunity against a deadlier strain emerging.

The question is, will adding it to the regular vaccines received in early childhood be enough to keep it under control in the future, or will it need to be added to the seasonal flu shot.

Yeah, that makes sense. If you believe in intelligent design, a lab virus becomes just another extension of this.

I also do wonder whether it will land it below or above influenza in terms of virulence. Some respiratory diseases such as RSV managed to land at fairly high infection fatality rates (0.25%) but are not very transmissible. But all the other coronaviruses have fallen well below influenza, so I hope that'll be that, at least in the mid to long term, once it runs out of hosts for viable dangerous mutations.

Is a lab origin really that far-fatched? Isn't it the purpose of gain of function research to mimic/re-create how zoonotic spillover events happen but in a more safe, secure and controlled lab environment?? And in a lab setting, you can remove some of the roadblocks and RNG that nature puts up like, frequency/duration of animal to animal/animal to human proximity/contact, co-infection of cells with a specific second virus for recombination potential, that pesky immune system that clears the infection before it can better adapt or spread to another host/species etc...

Something just doesn't seem right.. Wuhan lab collecting bat coronaviruses for GoF research happens to be located in the region that was the first epicenter of the outbreak. Two years prior to the pandemic, US officials warned about the inadequate safety at the lab and the potential for a new SARS-like pandemic. Lead bat coronavirus researcher Dr. Shi Zhengli's initial fear was that it could have came from her lab and that it kept her up for days, but then ruled out that possibility based on genetic sequences at her lab. But all the way back in Sept of 2019 an extensive bat coronavirus database was taken offline coinciding with recent reports that lab workers were sick there back in the fall of 2019(probably sick from community transmission but perhaps spooked of a possible recent lab leak, harvard study showed evidence of sizeable community spread back in August 2019 via search queries for symptoms and satellite parking lot hospital images). You also have the fact that china waited a year to let researchers in for a very controlled and supervised "investigation" and the lab origin was ignored. No ability of any investigative body to review records,lab notes, access to lab databases, interviews with researchers/other staff. China has been uncooperative, offered very little data, 0 transparency and access for a year now... and for some reason they are having fun bullying Australia with tariffs for asking questions lol. This also wouldn't be the first time something leaked from a lab in China, SARS1 leaked on a couple of occasions.



curl-6 said:

FINALLY. First doses of the Pfizer vaccine arrive in Australia, with vaccination to begin a week from now, on the 22nd.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-15/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-arrive-australia-rollout/13155726

That's good. Here in Brazil we have CoronaVac (From China) and Oxford (From India) and we are waiting for the Sputnik V (Russia).

It looks like a lot, but Brazil is a very large country and the population is huge, so we need an insane amount of doses in order to vaccinate everybody at the risk group.

As if things weren't complicated enough, some people are "cheating" the system to be vaccinated ahead of people at the risk group.



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Hell yeah! Pfizer is sending us 900,000+ more doses than originally planned for, so it looks like in Denmark, everyone could be vaccinated by June!!
4 more months and hopefully this covid situtation is over with.

(Luckly its not so bad atm, positivity rate amoung testing is just 0,2%, and we only have ~300 people hospitalised, 65 in intensive care)

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 15 February 2021

Alex_The_Hedgehog said:
curl-6 said:

FINALLY. First doses of the Pfizer vaccine arrive in Australia, with vaccination to begin a week from now, on the 22nd.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-15/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-arrive-australia-rollout/13155726

That's good. Here in Brazil we have CoronaVac (From China) and Oxford (From India) and we are waiting for the Sputnik V (Russia).

It looks like a lot, but Brazil is a very large country and the population is huge, so we need an insane amount of doses in order to vaccinate everybody at the risk group.

As if things weren't complicated enough, some people are "cheating" the system to be vaccinated ahead of people at the risk group.

How good are those versions? China's and India's?
Out of those 3, ironically I think I'd trust the russian version the most.
(I've seen a video with Dr John Campbell going over the study data from Sputnik V)



Got the invite to set an appointment for the Pfizer vaccine, but when I click there's no more time slots left for months. Hope I can actually get it some time soon. Guess I'll keep checking.



Grandma has gotten the first dose of the vaccine



useruserB said:

Is a lab origin really that far-fatched? Isn't it the purpose of gain of function research to mimic/re-create how zoonotic spillover events happen but in a more safe, secure and controlled lab environment?? And in a lab setting, you can remove some of the roadblocks and RNG that nature puts up like, frequency/duration of animal to animal/animal to human proximity/contact, co-infection of cells with a specific second virus for recombination potential, that pesky immune system that clears the infection before it can better adapt or spread to another host/species etc...

Something just doesn't seem right.. Wuhan lab collecting bat coronaviruses for GoF research happens to be located in the region that was the first epicenter of the outbreak. Two years prior to the pandemic, US officials warned about the inadequate safety at the lab and the potential for a new SARS-like pandemic. Lead bat coronavirus researcher Dr. Shi Zhengli's initial fear was that it could have came from her lab and that it kept her up for days, but then ruled out that possibility based on genetic sequences at her lab. But all the way back in Sept of 2019 an extensive bat coronavirus database was taken offline coinciding with recent reports that lab workers were sick there back in the fall of 2019(probably sick from community transmission but perhaps spooked of a possible recent lab leak, harvard study showed evidence of sizeable community spread back in August 2019 via search queries for symptoms and satellite parking lot hospital images). You also have the fact that china waited a year to let researchers in for a very controlled and supervised "investigation" and the lab origin was ignored. No ability of any investigative body to review records,lab notes, access to lab databases, interviews with researchers/other staff. China has been uncooperative, offered very little data, 0 transparency and access for a year now... and for some reason they are having fun bullying Australia with tariffs for asking questions lol. This also wouldn't be the first time something leaked from a lab in China, SARS1 leaked on a couple of occasions.

As you said, genetic sequencing ruled that out. Genetic sequencing also ruled out any purposeful tinkering with the virus, confirmed by scientists abroad. It all points to a natural mutation via a host animal species.

What is more likely, bats interacting with other species all over the world, species that get traded, trafficked and eaten all over the world and have been involved in all previous viruses emerging




Or a bat (or bat feces) interacting with a cat? in a lab that then infects someone outside?

Consider this

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30641-1/fulltext

“If the virus had been human-made, that would show in its genome”, counters Robertson. “Besides, if you were going to create a coronavirus that can be transmitted by humans, you would almost certainly start with the first SARS virus. SARS-CoV-2 is like nothing we have seen before. It really is highly unlikely that someone created it; it is not put together from pieces we know about.” SARS-CoV-2 is closely related to other beta coronaviruses such as RaTG13, a bat virus that the Wuhan Institute of Virology has been working on. But it only shares 96% of its genome sequence with RaTG13, which makes them roughly as similar as human beings and chimpanzees, and points to a common ancestor rather than one springing from the other.


The inconvenient truth is that, blaming labs and tightening security there, isn't going to protect us one bit from future outbreaks.

“The major thing is to change our behaviour”, adds David Morens, senior advisor to the director at the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “That means stopping deforestation, perturbing the environment, bat cave tourism, and intensive farming.” Prompt detection of new viruses is also crucial. But the places where new zoonotic diseases tend to emerge do not typically have strong public health surveillance systems. “We have to invest in infrastructure that would allow outbreaks to be detected far earlier than they currently are”, Wood says.