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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

John2290 said:
EricHiggin said:

My point about Musk was using this rock as an 'experiment' if you will to prepare for heading off to Mars before it's potentially too late. He doesn't think mankind should be a multi planetary species just because it would be cool. He see's where things look to be headed.

I was mostly joking about the conspiracy theory point, on purpose. It's all crazy nonsense says the authorities in power, until it's not.

There's a lot to wonder about and prepare for just in case, yet you can only be so prepared without bankrupting yourself or going overboard for nothing. The biggest worry I have is the whole cashless society thing. Right now is the perfect time for that to be pushed through, and it's happening as we speak. Now what happens after this is over will tell whether or not it was extra caution or taking advantage of a situation. I don't think people in general realize how much of a problem that could be. In an online world, of social media justice, digital only banking easily becomes a nightmare for anyone who dares step out of line.

I wouldn't worry too much, in terms of the west anyway, more so NA. Right now we're still far from 1984. As long as certain rights exist and are upheld for the most part, the people would be able to stop it for the foreseeable future. The main question going forward, is will the world come together even more, or separate somewhat? Both lead to very different outcomes.

To your last point first, that is the fucking conundrum. The only way to save the status quo is to form a on world government and the only way to save our freedoms and not have this happen in the future to such a degree of disaster is to revert to pulling everything back to the nation level. The latter seems to be what we are going for but that wipes so much progress to a post scarcity society and practically throws us back to a cold war era if not a full on conflict era. Remember that 1984 is not in the one world government approach, the whole structure of the world order in the book depends on there being other nations, at least the concept of them for the people.

Cashless society? What exactly do you mean? Like a socialist credit system?

What is needed is an in between measure. Nations with borders but willing to communicate and cooperate with other nations so it doesn't lead to war. That's so much easier said than put into practice though, I know, but it's the only way freedom remains as it does now. I wasn't trying to compare 1984 directly, but that the odds of that actually happening are slim in nations with rights that remain mostly intact. For other nations, they may not be so lucky if the free powerful nations don't step in and stop it, which they'd rather not do if they don't have to.

Simply cashless. You do or say something that creates massive controversy, usually in an online global fashion, and next thing you know, online money services can refuse to deal with you, or banks themselves. It's already happening on a very small scale, which means it will likely get worse the less cash there is. Right now you can easily get cash money or hold cash money on your person, without money services being involved, so not all that much pressure can be applied to you. What about when you rely on those services for all money holding and transfers? It's indirectly like digital only gaming. If those servers go down, no games for you. If you break whatever rules are applied to that ecosystem, you're kicked for a period of time to learn your lesson, or you're outright banned period. Some creators on YouTube or other media services have had a serious problem with this. Being kicked off the platform even though they haven't broken any rules, since the rules can be made up on the spot.

That's not to say it's guaranteed to happen, but the opportunity is there and it's being experimented with.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 12 April 2020

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John2290 said:

This might seem contrarian but I just have to and sorry in advance...Contagion was a damn horror film until they turned the classic Hollywood, easy out slide into the ending. Outbreak was a popcorn film and even in these times it gave some good old cinema relief, although it might be childhood nostalgia for me. Terry Gilliam at his best? Fear and Loathing? Brazil?...C'mon. 

Now Children of men, I do agree sir that is one of the top five, if not the best film ever to be created. It is was so far ahead in cinematography that watching it, i'm sure, in 2020 it is still ahead of the game plus the groundedness of it really got it spot on. I rewatched it last Xmas or the Xmas before with family I was legit finding it hard to hide tears.

And yeah, man, there is no point in being scared all of the time but fear has to be there for a reason and the same can be said about complacency which could well be worse in this case as it leads to that which we, or at least, I am fearing. I guess we have to find a balance but hiding from fear isn't the answer right now cause it is a survival mechanism. Scared is also the wrong word to describe it, it's more alertness heightening from thirty years of baseline peacefulness. Don't get me wrong i'm getting in plenty of downtime, but when there is a storm coming, it's hard not to switch to the weather channel a few times to check the projections.

How are you folks doing in Canada? If all goes sideways do you have infrastructure to support your population with supplies, within the nation... besides cranberries and maple syrup. You have a lot of bog and crude oil, so you won't go cold and that's one area for economic growth. How fairs your assessment of the outlook for Canada should we return to a pre globalised world? Ireland has it pretty fucking good, counting the beans, myself.

Aye Fear and Loathing and Brazil are great as well. 12 Monkeys is my favorite though as most rewatchable to me. I like all his movies, Tideland is just so strangely awful while the Zero Theorem is silly comedy. I have all his movies on blu-ray, one of my favorite directors together with Quentin Tarantino, the Coen brothers, Wes Anderson and of course Hayao Miyazaki.

I do check what's going on daily and do my own analysis of how things are progressing. I don't have much fear about running out of food here, there's nothing but farm land and farms around here. And yep, oil sands, plenty trees and we're living in the second largest country in the world after Russia, with 'only' 38 million people.

So far I don't notice any big changes here apart from stuff being closed. Shopping is a bit of a hassle I've heard, however I haven't gone shopping in the past 3 weeks, no need. I don't have a phone either so good luck tracking me. My wife baked bread for the first time. She said you won't want to go back to store bought bread after this, she's right.

Canada also exports some electricity to the states as well as garbage (literally), trucking it from Toronto to Detroit... The biggest import is vehicles, we would have to make our own which would be good news to many. Top export is indeed oil. It's a bit odd though, we seem to export the same stuff we import, vehicles, machinery etc.

Imports

  1. Vehicles: US$74.4 billion (16.4% of total imports)
  2. Machinery including computers: $69.2 billion (15.3%)
  3. Electrical machinery, equipment: $44.2 billion (9.7%)
  4. Mineral fuels including oil: $33.2 billion (7.3%)
  5. Plastics, plastic articles: $16.4 billion (3.6%)
  6. Pharmaceuticals: $13.9 billion (3.1%)
  7. Optical, technical, medical apparatus: $12.6 billion (2.8%)
  8. Gems, precious metals: $10.3 billion (2.3%)
  9. Articles of iron or steel: $10.3 billion (2.3%)
  10. Furniture, bedding, lighting , signs, prefab buildings: $9.2 billion (2%)

Exports

  1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$98.4 billion (22% of total exports)
  2. Vehicles: $61.4 billion (13.8%)
  3. Machinery including computers: $34.8 billion (7.8%)
  4. Gems, precious metals: $21.3 billion (4.8%)
  5. Electrical machinery, equipment: $13.5 billion (3%)
  6. Plastics, plastic articles: $12.7 billion (2.8%)
  7. Wood: $11.7 billion (2.6%)
  8. Aircraft, spacecraft: $11.3 billion (2.5%)
  9. Ores, slag, ash: $8.9 billion (2%)
  10. Pharmaceuticals: $8.4 billion (1.9%)


We're closely tied to the US, Top 3 trade partners:

1 United States 508,175
- European Union 94,115
2 China 63,952

    So the US better keep their shit together :) Or I guess we can do with a little less variety since a lot is just exchanging goods it seems.

    Farmers here would be delighted to have less competition from cheap produce from Mexico and California. And we can always go back to working on the fields instead of importing Mexicans to do it for us. We have become spoiled and lazy. I chop up big trees in my backyard with an axe to get tired! This is me last year. 
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T54ieGHKTWM
    It took a couple months but I turned that thing into small enough pieces to move around while creating a giant pile of wood chips, with that little axe. Sitting in an office bleh.



    SvennoJ said:
    John2290 said:

    This might seem contrarian but I just have to and sorry in advance...Contagion was a damn horror film until they turned the classic Hollywood, easy out slide into the ending. Outbreak was a popcorn film and even in these times it gave some good old cinema relief, although it might be childhood nostalgia for me. Terry Gilliam at his best? Fear and Loathing? Brazil?...C'mon. 

    Now Children of men, I do agree sir that is one of the top five, if not the best film ever to be created. It is was so far ahead in cinematography that watching it, i'm sure, in 2020 it is still ahead of the game plus the groundedness of it really got it spot on. I rewatched it last Xmas or the Xmas before with family I was legit finding it hard to hide tears.

    And yeah, man, there is no point in being scared all of the time but fear has to be there for a reason and the same can be said about complacency which could well be worse in this case as it leads to that which we, or at least, I am fearing. I guess we have to find a balance but hiding from fear isn't the answer right now cause it is a survival mechanism. Scared is also the wrong word to describe it, it's more alertness heightening from thirty years of baseline peacefulness. Don't get me wrong i'm getting in plenty of downtime, but when there is a storm coming, it's hard not to switch to the weather channel a few times to check the projections.

    How are you folks doing in Canada? If all goes sideways do you have infrastructure to support your population with supplies, within the nation... besides cranberries and maple syrup. You have a lot of bog and crude oil, so you won't go cold and that's one area for economic growth. How fairs your assessment of the outlook for Canada should we return to a pre globalised world? Ireland has it pretty fucking good, counting the beans, myself.

    Aye Fear and Loathing and Brazil are great as well. 12 Monkeys is my favorite though as most rewatchable to me. I like all his movies, Tideland is just so strangely awful while the Zero Theorem is silly comedy. I have all his movies on blu-ray, one of my favorite directors together with Quentin Tarantino, the Coen brothers, Wes Anderson and of course Hayao Miyazaki.

    I do check what's going on daily and do my own analysis of how things are progressing. I don't have much fear about running out of food here, there's nothing but farm land and farms around here. And yep, oil sands, plenty trees and we're living in the second largest country in the world after Russia, with 'only' 38 million people.

    So far I don't notice any big changes here apart from stuff being closed. Shopping is a bit of a hassle I've heard, however I haven't gone shopping in the past 3 weeks, no need. I don't have a phone either so good luck tracking me. My wife baked bread for the first time. She said you won't want to go back to store bought bread after this, she's right.

    Canada also exports some electricity to the states as well as garbage (literally), trucking it from Toronto to Detroit... The biggest import is vehicles, we would have to make our own which would be good news to many. Top export is indeed oil. It's a bit odd though, we seem to export the same stuff we import, vehicles, machinery etc.

    Imports

    1. Vehicles: US$74.4 billion (16.4% of total imports)
    2. Machinery including computers: $69.2 billion (15.3%)
    3. Electrical machinery, equipment: $44.2 billion (9.7%)
    4. Mineral fuels including oil: $33.2 billion (7.3%)
    5. Plastics, plastic articles: $16.4 billion (3.6%)
    6. Pharmaceuticals: $13.9 billion (3.1%)
    7. Optical, technical, medical apparatus: $12.6 billion (2.8%)
    8. Gems, precious metals: $10.3 billion (2.3%)
    9. Articles of iron or steel: $10.3 billion (2.3%)
    10. Furniture, bedding, lighting , signs, prefab buildings: $9.2 billion (2%)

    Exports

    1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$98.4 billion (22% of total exports)
    2. Vehicles: $61.4 billion (13.8%)
    3. Machinery including computers: $34.8 billion (7.8%)
    4. Gems, precious metals: $21.3 billion (4.8%)
    5. Electrical machinery, equipment: $13.5 billion (3%)
    6. Plastics, plastic articles: $12.7 billion (2.8%)
    7. Wood: $11.7 billion (2.6%)
    8. Aircraft, spacecraft: $11.3 billion (2.5%)
    9. Ores, slag, ash: $8.9 billion (2%)
    10. Pharmaceuticals: $8.4 billion (1.9%)


    We're closely tied to the US, Top 3 trade partners:

    1 United States 508,175
    - European Union 94,115
    2 China 63,952

      So the US better keep their shit together :) Or I guess we can do with a little less variety since a lot is just exchanging goods it seems.

      Farmers here would be delighted to have less competition from cheap produce from Mexico and California. And we can always go back to working on the fields instead of importing Mexicans to do it for us. We have become spoiled and lazy. I chop up big trees in my backyard with an axe to get tired! This is me last year. 
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T54ieGHKTWM
      It took a couple months but I turned that thing into small enough pieces to move around while creating a giant pile of wood chips, with that little axe. Sitting in an office bleh.

      I only ever use the axe to split wood on occasion anymore. Chainsaws and a splitter go a long way when you're felling a lot of tree's. You certainly had some serious dedication chopping that entire tree up with an axe. Easy way to keep yourself in shape though.

      Canada would be fine for the most part if there was more national separation, mind you, we are known for our immigrants and diversity, so how much we would actually separate would be questionable.

      As for the farmers, it's not as simple as it may seem unfortunately. While the Gov has allowed offshore labor to come into the country, they have laid strict rules due to the pandemic, and they are harsh enough that it seems about 50% of the fruit and veg farmers in our area aren't going to bother farming anything that requires that labor. On top of that, those farmers were quite worried that their on site fresh market stand sales would be useless due to the illness, which for many brings in a reasonable amount of money. Most of those are smaller farms that will take the biggest hit as well.

      For farmers like my parents, it's going to lead to some more work, as those other farmers are hiring custom farming operations like my parents for corn or soy. It may end up hurting everyone in the end though, as those grain markets may end up over saturated come harvest, depending on yields, which will mean low grain prices. What the extra income the custom farmers make by doing more work may very well get offset by poor prices for their own grain crops later on.

      It'll have to get a lot worse than it is now for people to come work hard on a farm for the money they will get paid. I'm sure there's a few out there, but the amount of people the local farms go through is unbelievable. It's why most use offshore.



      John2290 said:
      EricHiggin said:

      What is needed is an in between measure. Nations with borders but willing to communicate and cooperate with other nations so it doesn't lead to war. That's so much easier said than put into practice though, I know, but it's the only way freedom remains as it does now. I wasn't trying to compare 1984 directly, but that the odds of that actually happening are slim in nations with rights that remain mostly intact. For other nations, they may not be so lucky if the free powerful nations don't step in and stop it, which they'd rather not do if they don't have to.

      Simply cashless. You do or say something that creates massive controversy, usually in an online global fashion, and next thing you know, online money services can refuse to deal with you, or banks themselves. It's already happening on a very small scale, which means it will likely get worse the less cash there is. Right now you can easily get cash money or hold cash money on your person, without money services being involved, so not all that much pressure can be applied to you. What about when you rely on those services for all money transfers? It's indirectly like digital only gaming. If those servers go down, no games for you. If you break whatever rules are applied to that ecosystem, you're kicked for a period of time to learn your lesson, or you're outright banned period. Some creators on YouTube or other media services have had a serious problem with this. Being kicked off the platform even though they haven't broken any rules, since the rules can be made up on the spot.

      That's not to say it's guaranteed to happen, but the opportunity is there and it's being experimented with.

      Fuck, yeah, I completely forgot about that happening to content creators. That'll take some thought transposing it into the current situation but the initial positive thought that comes to mind is, right now, businesses aren't in a position to turn away revenue and If I remember correctly progress was being made in regards to this situation but indeed it could be a serious problem on the infrastructure front for small business and the workforce who work day to day, not that it is their main concern right now and like you said, it's a tight rope on the infrastructure like those poor bastards who get locked out of their cars cause they have know internet.

      All depends on how things play out after this is over. What will people be willing to trade for their long term health, and will they think about the future indirect consequences of those decisions? It's a game of wait and see, but for now, figuring out the best ways to deal with this illness remains number one by far, followed by how to avoid or better handle future illness going forward.



      EricHiggin said:

       It's a game of wait and see, but for now, figuring out the best ways to deal with this illness remains number one by far, followed by how to avoid or better handle future illness going forward.

      The last part of your post is easy to answer:  How about a shitload of PPE and ventilators in the national stockpile. 

      I'm talking about a billion N95 masks, 100k ventilators, etc...



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      Some good news
      https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canadian-bioscience-firm-says-it-s-approved-for-production-of-rapid-covid-19-testing-device-1.4893257

      TORONTO -- A Canadian bioscience firm has received federal approval for production and distribution of a device it claims can produce COVID-19 test results in less than an hour.

      ...

      Under current testing models in Canada, swabs must be sent to centres in large cities for testing, which can lead to delays in results and backlogs at laboratories. Lem believes his device will help solve that problem.

      “They have to send the results back to whoever ordered the test, so that's why it can take days or even over a week, to get the test results,” he said. “In contrast, with our portable COVID-19 DNA testing device, you're getting results right away.”

      Spartan Bioscience estimates it can produce 1.5 million of these tests each month.

      “So we are massively ramping up our supply chain so that we'll be able to produce millions of tests every month," Lem said. "As we're able to meet candidates demand, then we'll be in a position to help the rest of the world.”

      ...

      There are several rapid testing devices being developed around the world, including in the U.S., Europe and South Korea.

      In South Korea, Kogen Biotech produced a rapid testing device last month that led in the nationwide effort to flatten the curve in their country. With the help of the device more than 300,000 people were able to be tested through drive-in centres.

      Lem said Kogen Biotech’s device relies on final results from a lab, however, compared to his product which can produce results on the spot.



      Just passed Day 31 of stay at home. Time is going by fast. I'm doing all right all things considered. I hope everyone else is hanging in there!



      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

      Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.

      Well. As a nation the discussion seems to have moved to Australia having "defeated" the virus and life potentially returning to normal, minus the open borders of course, until a vaccine is found.

      Should be interesting to see how things go.

      But our Universal Healthcare System (Which includes advertising and dissemination of information and working with all rescue agencies...) has proven to be extremely effective... Something that New Zealand has mimicked successfully also.

      Definitely haven't dropped the ball like the USA has done.



      --::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

      Do foreign game companies continue to work?
      Square Enix employees are currently working from home .



      Pemalite said:
      Well. As a nation the discussion seems to have moved to Australia having "defeated" the virus and life potentially returning to normal, minus the open borders of course, until a vaccine is found.

      Should be interesting to see how things go.

      But our Universal Healthcare System (Which includes advertising and dissemination of information and working with all rescue agencies...) has proven to be extremely effective... Something that New Zealand has mimicked successfully also.

      Definitely haven't dropped the ball like the USA has done.

      Pretty much the same here in Germany.

      Official numbers showed more recovered people than infected for the first time. There's also a new report which states that schools and non essential shops should re-open soon. Of course you should still keep a minimum distance and wear masks where keeping distance isn't possible.