Forums - Gaming Discussion - Mysterious SONY cartridge patent for Playstation device; "new handled or a costume SSD for PS5 ??? "

What is this ?

PS Vita 2 cartridge 4 16.00%
 
Sony PS5 proprietary SSD 15 60.00%
 
New VHS 3 12.00%
 
Sony going retro 2 8.00%
 
PSVR 2 cartridge 1 4.00%
 
Total:25
Xxain said:
What should we be taking from this?

Either for PS5 SSD , PSVR 2 or PS new handheld system. 



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HollyGamer said:

My points is this the prove that they has their own proprietary solution that is not available on current PC market

And? Just because it's propriety doesn't mean squat.
The tech industry is littered with the bones of propriety technologies that failed... Case in point, Sony Memory Stick format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick

I do have to ask, what is so propriety about it? Feel free to elaborate, just so I can understand your level of understanding on this specific topic.

HollyGamer said:

Having SRAM or not is not the argument we are talking  here (Is like arguing arguing back and forth weather  AMD CU is the same with Nvidia CUDA Core)  .

I was responding to your point on a Sony patent which mentioned SRAM in the SSD... As if it was something new and novel and never seen before which is false.
So yes, SRAM is very much the argument.

HollyGamer said:

The point is none of "current Nvme on the market " has all this type of combination and solution, and also it has a dedicated cpu and dedicated cache.

What combination and solution to be precise? Fact is we don't know what implementation the Playstation 5 is going to go with... Because the hardware hasn't been revealed in any detailed breakdown. A patent doesn't mean squat.

Have you seen the Playstation 5 in person? Have you seen a tech outlet tear apart a Playstation 5 and shown us the dedicated CPU and cache for the SSD? Or are you just asserting something as factual, without knowing the facts?

And are you sure that PC SSD controllers don't have a dedicated CPU and Cache? Or is that another false assertion?

HollyGamer said:

you have the same tech that similar show  to me  (you will not find any ) because this patent is only made for Sony by Sony.

I never stated the PC has the same technology, nor did I state the PC requires the same technology to equal or better the implementation Sony goes with, making this a goal-post shifting logical fallacy.

The PC can and does have SSD implementations that will wipe the floor with the Playstation 5 because power, cost and size is not a factor.

HollyGamer said:

 If   Yes SRAM is available on the market and yes they probably has small cpu , but it's not inside normal NVMe that you can buy in store for gaming RIG  , hell even PS4 costume APU using GDDR5 is not available on the normal AMD APU.

And yet. The PC can still beat the Playstation 4 in terms of performance, because it doesn't have cost, power, size limitations.

In saying that, new APU architectures (I.E. Vega) have a plethora of technologies that conserve DRAM bandwidth... Such as Delta Colour Compression, Primitive Discard, Draw Stream Binning Rasterization, Primitive Shaders, Index Cache, Improved Culling and more... Meaning it does more work per unit of bandwidth than the Playstation 4.
Once Renoire drops with DDR4 DRAM speeds of 4266mhz, things will get really interesting.

https://techreport.com/review/31224/the-curtain-comes-up-on-amds-vega-architecture/

HollyGamer said:

A patent filing is not guaranteed will pass in to the market, but this a prove to back up my opinion based on the current info we have so far regarding Cerny statement on how they can achieve a "fast SSD " on affordable price consoles.  

It proves absolutely nothing as you don't know if it's going to be in the hardware being released into the market.

Cerny's statements in regards to the SSD doesn't trump the fact that overall, the PC can have faster SSD implementations than a console could ever possibly have as it's not restricted by cost, power or size... There is this little known technology known as "RAID" after-all, which allows multiple drives to work together to bolster reliability and/or performance.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

My points is this the prove that they has their own proprietary solution that is not available on current PC market

And? Just because it's propriety doesn't mean squat.
The tech industry is littered with the bones of propriety technologies that failed... Case in point, Sony Memory Stick format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick

I do have to ask, what is so propriety about it? Feel free to elaborate, just so I can understand your level of understanding on this specific topic.

HollyGamer said:

Having SRAM or not is not the argument we are talking  here (Is like arguing arguing back and forth weather  AMD CU is the same with Nvidia CUDA Core)  .

I was responding to your point on a Sony patent which mentioned SRAM in the SSD... As if it was something new and novel and never seen before which is false.
So yes, SRAM is very much the argument.

HollyGamer said:

The point is none of "current Nvme on the market " has all this type of combination and solution, and also it has a dedicated cpu and dedicated cache.

What combination and solution to be precise? Fact is we don't know what implementation the Playstation 5 is going to go with... Because the hardware hasn't been revealed in any detailed breakdown. A patent doesn't mean squat.

Have you seen the Playstation 5 in person? Have you seen a tech outlet tear apart a Playstation 5 and shown us the dedicated CPU and cache for the SSD? Or are you just asserting something as factual, without knowing the facts?

And are you sure that PC SSD controllers don't have a dedicated CPU and Cache? Or is that another false assertion?

HollyGamer said:

you have the same tech that similar show  to me  (you will not find any ) because this patent is only made for Sony by Sony.

I never stated the PC has the same technology, nor did I state the PC requires the same technology to equal or better the implementation Sony goes with, making this a goal-post shifting logical fallacy.

The PC can and does have SSD implementations that will wipe the floor with the Playstation 5 because power, cost and size is not a factor.

HollyGamer said:

 If   Yes SRAM is available on the market and yes they probably has small cpu , but it's not inside normal NVMe that you can buy in store for gaming RIG  , hell even PS4 costume APU using GDDR5 is not available on the normal AMD APU.

And yet. The PC can still beat the Playstation 4 in terms of performance, because it doesn't have cost, power, size limitations.

In saying that, new APU architectures (I.E. Vega) have a plethora of technologies that conserve DRAM bandwidth... Such as Delta Colour Compression, Primitive Discard, Draw Stream Binning Rasterization, Primitive Shaders, Index Cache, Improved Culling and more... Meaning it does more work per unit of bandwidth than the Playstation 4.
Once Renoire drops with DDR4 DRAM speeds of 4266mhz, things will get really interesting.

https://techreport.com/review/31224/the-curtain-comes-up-on-amds-vega-architecture/

HollyGamer said:

A patent filing is not guaranteed will pass in to the market, but this a prove to back up my opinion based on the current info we have so far regarding Cerny statement on how they can achieve a "fast SSD " on affordable price consoles.  

It proves absolutely nothing as you don't know if it's going to be in the hardware being released into the market.

Cerny's statements in regards to the SSD doesn't trump the fact that overall, the PC can have faster SSD implementations than a console could ever possibly have as it's not restricted by cost, power or size... There is this little known technology known as "RAID" after-all, which allows multiple drives to work together to bolster reliability and/or performance.

The SSD tech could be great, yet not be anything unique and special, other than the combination in a proprietary cartridge.

I wouldn't be surprised if SNY assumed the general public is too incompetent to install a typical SSD stick, and so housing it in a cartridge would make sense. Why not just use a typical 2.5" SSD then? Maybe they found that few people bothered upgrading their internal HDD on PS4 due to 'being too complex'. Maybe PS wants to have an option for a clean looking gaming center without requiring an external storage drive.

If by chance the SSD space on PS5 is going to be seen as borderline enough, they may plan on selling a boat load of SSD upgrades or expansions. This wouldn't be any different than in the past where console companies would sell memory expansion packs or larger memory cards themselves. This could be a way to keep the launch price down at a more reasonable level, or it could be a way to make back some of any losses on the console, or make extra on top.

Then again, maybe it's a cart for a PS Portable, whatever games it may end up playing.



Pemalite said:

And? Just because it's propriety doesn't mean squat.
The tech industry is littered with the bones of propriety technologies that failed... Case in point, Sony Memory Stick format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick

I do have to ask, what is so propriety about it? Feel free to elaborate, just so I can understand your level of understanding on this specific topic.

It's super mega squat.  Proprietary means it's only available for Sony .  " AVAILABLE FOR SONY " their device or their own benefit (they can sell it or use on other company that pay their design or concept) This is the reason WHY PATENT EXIST. Will it be used at real world??? Probably but that's not the point here, they have the tech to backup my claim. Pend of argument. 


I was responding to your point on a Sony patent which mentioned SRAM in the SSD... As if it was something new and novel and never seen before which is false.
So yes, SRAM is very much the argument.

SRAM in this world is not new but implemented for SSD for cheap price , affordable ready available for use to the mass and costume (build specific number of memories that SONY needs  for playstation requirement)   So they don't need to pay another unnecessary cost. 

What combination and solution to be precise? Fact is we don't know what implementation the Playstation 5 is going to go with... Because the hardware hasn't been revealed in any detailed breakdown. A patent doesn't mean squat.

Have you seen the Playstation 5 in person? Have you seen a tech outlet tear apart a Playstation 5 and shown us the dedicated CPU and cache for the SSD? Or are you just asserting something as factual, without knowing the facts?

And are you sure that PC SSD controllers don't have a dedicated CPU and Cache? Or is that another false assertion?

Just read this , dont be lazy https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps5-a-patent-dive-into-what-might-be-the-tech-behind-sonys-ssd-customisations-technical.118587/


The PC can and does have SSD implementations that will wipe the floor with the Playstation 5 because power, cost and size is not a factor.

NO IT's NOT, PC are build for every other purpose that making it more expensive while consoles it consist only for gaming . SMH 

And yet. The PC can still beat the Playstation 4 in terms of performance, because it doesn't have cost, power, size limitations.


In saying that, new APU architectures (I.E. Vega) have a plethora of technologies that conserve DRAM bandwidth... Such as Delta Colour Compression, Primitive Discard, Draw Stream Binning Rasterization, Primitive Shaders, Index Cache, Improved Culling and more... Meaning it does more work per unit of bandwidth than the Playstation 4.
Once Renoire drops with DDR4 DRAM speeds of 4266mhz, things will get really interesting.

https://techreport.com/review/31224/the-curtain-comes-up-on-amds-vega-architecture/

I never said PS4 can beat a high end GPU. i am saying they solution is smarter by cutting cost to achieve the same result on PC with more efficiency in terms, game development, performance impact , lower TDP, and the graphic  effect and price  . And it did 

You seem hating any progress Sony has or hate when SONy as a hardware company based , also silicon, and tech company making any progress do you?  

It proves absolutely nothing as you don't know if it's going to be in the hardware being released into the market.

Cerny's statements in regards to the SSD doesn't trump the fact that overall, the PC can have faster SSD implementations than a console could ever possibly have as it's not restricted by cost, power or size... There is this little known technology known as "RAID" after-all, which allows multiple drives to work together to bolster reliability and/or performance.

It proves my opinion , regarding the first patent. It proves that they have the solution, regarding it will coming to PS5 or not is not the main problem here. They can and they have the solution.

You were asking " did SONY can have a fast SSD on the market that can beat current SSD on the "GAMING " market Yes they can, by implementing the tech they have. 

You seems have an identical crisis as PC gamer if getting offended by consoles progression. SMH

EDIT ; https://www.techradar.com/reviews/samsung-970-evo-plus

below is samsung spec of read and write 

This is Sony propetry SSD tech that possibly the solution for PS5

Sony has 10 GB read and write, it's fast even when you comparing it to Samsung 970 evo 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 10 November 2019

HollyGamer said:

EDIT ; https://www.techradar.com/reviews/samsung-970-evo-plus

below is samsung spec of read and write 

This is Sony propetry SSD tech that possibly the solution for PS5

Sony has 10 GB read and write, it's fast even when you comparing it to Samsung 970 evo 

3.5GB/s is only the start of what the PC can do.
Have an array and you can easily have 42GB/s of SSD bandwidth.

In saying that, the Samsung 970 Evo isn't the fastest PC SSD anyway, it's only PCI-E 3.0 for starters... So your comparison is blatantly false to start with.

EricHiggin said:

The SSD tech could be great, yet not be anything unique and special, other than the combination in a proprietary cartridge.

SSD's aren't good for cold storage, they have a habit of bit flipping and wiping data.

Nintendo gets around that by avoiding NAND entirely and opting for ROM.

EricHiggin said:

I wouldn't be surprised if SNY assumed the general public is too incompetent to install a typical SSD stick, and so housing it in a cartridge would make sense. Why not just use a typical 2.5" SSD then? Maybe they found that few people bothered upgrading their internal HDD on PS4 due to 'being too complex'. Maybe PS wants to have an option for a clean looking gaming center without requiring an external storage drive.

If by chance the SSD space on PS5 is going to be seen as borderline enough, they may plan on selling a boat load of SSD upgrades or expansions. This wouldn't be any different than in the past where console companies would sell memory expansion packs or larger memory cards themselves. This could be a way to keep the launch price down at a more reasonable level, or it could be a way to make back some of any losses on the console, or make extra on top.

Either way there is zero evidence to support or deny your hypothesis.


EricHiggin said:

Then again, maybe it's a cart for a PS Portable, whatever games it may end up playing.

Possibly. Either way, we need to wait for an official announcement.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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HollyGamer said:
Pemalite said:

Let's not propagate this snippet of false information, shall we? No way can a console match the SSD capabilities of a high-end SSD setup on PC.

Only speculation. Wait till the hardware actually gets revealed.

SRAM is usually reserved for L1/L2/L3 caches on CPU's, GPU's and other processors, so the controller on the SSD could have a fair amount of processing capability if it features a chunk of SRAM.
In saying that, SRAM tends to be smaller, more expensive than DRAM, so it's use in large sequential reads/writes would be limited. - Massive boon for small random reads/writes though... But no reason why it can't or won't have both, memory hierarchy's exist for a reason.

However, to say it has "more advantages" over current SSD's with large DRAM pools and SRAM on the controllers is being disingenuous. - Who makes up these claims? Current PC SSD controllers have SRAM and DRAM, unless it's a low-end SSD.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps5-a-patent-dive-into-what-might-be-the-tech-behind-sonys-ssd-customisations-technical.118587/

You will not find any Nvme like this on the market 

EDIT: why would Sony bothered making a patent for it or even customize it, if it's not to cut the cost , making it more  accessible or make it even faster

If sony using normal Nvme for PS5  they will not make any patent, or making any statement.  

Why? Well to have a proprietary device which only Sony sells instead of using off-the-shelf SSD - at premium prices, of course.



Switch may have been a trendsetter with it's hybrid console.



Could Sony make, along side the PS5, a new lowcost device specifically for game streaming through PS Now?
It would be a cheap Switch-like console that can be played in mobility then connected to a Tv, only for PS Now titles.
It seems reasonable to you?



Interesting. Looking forward to seeing where this leads.



Chinese food for breakfast

 

It's just a PS1 memory card.