Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Dragon Quest 11 on Switch, " a remarkably impressive port"

curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I was expecting a lower resolution as well but that 720p+ resolution came with compromises.

A significant downgrade to the lighting, lowered geometry, much more jarring pop in, etc. I can't help but wonder if there could have been less visual compromise with a lower resolution. But given this is UE4, that would probably mean a very blurry game, even more so.

I think CoD games on last gen were hitting something like 600p and they still look pretty good. UE4 games though tend to look really soft a low resolution.

Current gen games tend to look softer (though less aliased) at sub-HD resolutions than PS3/360 games because they tend to use a lot more post-processing effects that can soften the image. Also, modern AA tends towards the temporal and post-process variety which suppress the jaggies at the cost of adding blur.

Having said that, DQ11 is HD and above in TV mode. I actually haven't played it myself, but looking at DF's footage I don't think it looks overly blurry, to my eyes anyway.

The softness of modern games seems to be from low taxing AA solutions. Developers often opt for that in UE4 games. Which means games get really blurry if the resolution is low, so resolutions in the range of 720p get muddy. That same solution on 900p or 1080p can be fine in comparison.

To me this game looks muddy and Im sure it due to poor AA and AF. Its not just an issue with Switch though, there are X1 games that suffer from this. Tekken 7 and Soul Calibur VI are pretty rough, but thats a cost of 60 fps.



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curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

I would say it is a poorly designed game, the game using cartoon artwork (that looks good enough mind you) get only 900p, while Detroit (from a much smaller studio than S-E) looks much much much better and more taxing.

The two are very different games to be fair; Detroit is almost an interactive film where the highest priority is placed on realistic graphical fidelity; DQ11 is an open world game where graphics are less of a priority and the visuals aim to create a clean, CG-like cartoon look.

As Nuvendil already covered, UE4 is just a demanding engine in general in terms of its feature set, and games made with it tend to run at lower resolutions than you'd typically see on the same hardware.

Perhaps the studios working on with UE4 also matters. Crackdown 3, Sea of Theives, Days Gone, Gears 4 and Gears 5 look great with high resolutions.

3rd party games using UE4 tend to be less impressive. Although DQ11 on PS4 looks solid. I feel PS4 fans over react when a game isnt 1080p.



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Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

The two are very different games to be fair; Detroit is almost an interactive film where the highest priority is placed on realistic graphical fidelity; DQ11 is an open world game where graphics are less of a priority and the visuals aim to create a clean, CG-like cartoon look.

As Nuvendil already covered, UE4 is just a demanding engine in general in terms of its feature set, and games made with it tend to run at lower resolutions than you'd typically see on the same hardware.

Perhaps the studios working on with UE4 also matters. Crackdown 3, Sea of Theives, Days Gone, Gears 4 and Gears 5 look great with high resolutions.

3rd party games using UE4 tend to be less impressive. Although DQ11 on PS4 looks solid. I feel PS4 fans over react when a game isnt 1080p.

Yeah it is ultimately the studio that decide what resolution they want to target. A lot of them when working with UE4 simply tend to opt for the engine's high quality but expensive suite of effects and take the hit in pixel count. 

DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

The two are very different games to be fair; Detroit is almost an interactive film where the highest priority is placed on realistic graphical fidelity; DQ11 is an open world game where graphics are less of a priority and the visuals aim to create a clean, CG-like cartoon look.

As Nuvendil already covered, UE4 is just a demanding engine in general in terms of its feature set, and games made with it tend to run at lower resolutions than you'd typically see on the same hardware.

Prefer that I use Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, God of War, Spider-man or Red Dead Redemption 2 for examples that would qualify for the "open world" (and in GoW case it is a single set piece without any loads in between) that look and play leagues above DQXI to accept that there really isn't excuse for it not reaching 1080p? It was a design decision probably to save cost. And it isn't made by a small no name studio so that shouldn't qualify as excuse as well.

It's still very much apples to oranges though. None of those games are UE4 titles for a start.



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curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Perhaps the studios working on with UE4 also matters. Crackdown 3, Sea of Theives, Days Gone, Gears 4 and Gears 5 look great with high resolutions.

3rd party games using UE4 tend to be less impressive. Although DQ11 on PS4 looks solid. I feel PS4 fans over react when a game isnt 1080p.

Yeah it is ultimately the studio that decide what resolution they want to target. A lot of them when working with UE4 simply tend to opt for the engine's high quality but expensive suite of effects and take the hit in pixel count. 

DonFerrari said:

Prefer that I use Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, God of War, Spider-man or Red Dead Redemption 2 for examples that would qualify for the "open world" (and in GoW case it is a single set piece without any loads in between) that look and play leagues above DQXI to accept that there really isn't excuse for it not reaching 1080p? It was a design decision probably to save cost. And it isn't made by a small no name studio so that shouldn't qualify as excuse as well.

It's still very much apples to oranges though. None of those games are UE4 titles for a start.

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah it is ultimately the studio that decide what resolution they want to target. A lot of them when working with UE4 simply tend to opt for the engine's high quality but expensive suite of effects and take the hit in pixel count. 

It's still very much apples to oranges though. None of those games are UE4 titles for a start.

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Based on the mixed results of UE4, I suspect its an easy engine to work with but difficult or costly to create a polished, well optimized product.

AAA exclusives primarily have shown the engine is viable for 8th gen consoles. But sometimes it seems developers should opt for a different engine. Some studios for example have had great results sticking with UE3.



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Have some of you even considered just how GOOD Dragon Quest XI looks on PS4 and beyond? Even if it runs at 900p on the base PS4, it still looks astonishing, I wouldn't leave it out in a top 10 of best looking games in the system.



Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Based on the mixed results of UE4, I suspect its an easy engine to work with but difficult or costly to create a polished, well optimized product.

AAA exclusives primarily have shown the engine is viable for 8th gen consoles. But sometimes it seems developers should opt for a different engine. Some studios for example have had great results sticking with UE3.

It is a fair statement that sure we can't confirm, but makes sense.

Metallox said:
Have some of you even considered just how GOOD Dragon Quest XI looks on PS4 and beyond? Even if it runs at 900p on the base PS4, it still looks astonishing, I wouldn't leave it out in a top 10 of best looking games in the system.

I would, easily.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Based on the mixed results of UE4, I suspect its an easy engine to work with but difficult or costly to create a polished, well optimized product.

AAA exclusives primarily have shown the engine is viable for 8th gen consoles. But sometimes it seems developers should opt for a different engine. Some studios for example have had great results sticking with UE3.

It is a fair statement that sure we can't confirm, but makes sense.

Metallox said:
Have some of you even considered just how GOOD Dragon Quest XI looks on PS4 and beyond? Even if it runs at 900p on the base PS4, it still looks astonishing, I wouldn't leave it out in a top 10 of best looking games in the system.

I would, easily.

You're weird, tbh. So not surprising. 



DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah it is ultimately the studio that decide what resolution they want to target. A lot of them when working with UE4 simply tend to opt for the engine's high quality but expensive suite of effects and take the hit in pixel count. 

It's still very much apples to oranges though. None of those games are UE4 titles for a start.

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Sorry, but that's just not realistic; if it runs at 900p/30fps in actuality, there is simply no way the headroom is there for it to hit 1080p/60fps in its current form.

The fact is, just because something looks cartoony, doesn't mean it's not demanding on the hardware. If it wasn't demanding, there wouldn't be any need for "corner cutting" as getting a non-demanding game to 1080p on PS4 isn't costly in the first place.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 30 October 2019

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series X will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Sorry, but that's just not realistic; if it runs at 900p/30fps in actuality, there is simply no way the headroom is there for it to hit 1080p/60fps in its current form.

The fact is, just because something looks cartoony, doesn't mean it's not demanding on the hardware. If it wasn't demanding, there wouldn't be any need for "corner cutting" as getting a non-demanding game to 1080p on PS4 isn't costly in the first place.

I agree, but nobody would argue UE4 has often shown to be efficient. It also appears late ports using UE4 seem to benefit from improved optimzation probably from engine updates. For example, Hellblade optimization seemed to have improved for X1's late port and Switch likely benefitted as well.

I feel like studios relying on UE4 is often getting underwhelming results. But they do this because its evidently easier and scales fairly well.



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