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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Dragon Quest 11 on Switch, " a remarkably impressive port"

DonFerrari on 30 October 2019
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Perhaps the studios working on with UE4 also matters. Crackdown 3, Sea of Theives, Days Gone, Gears 4 and Gears 5 look great with high resolutions.

3rd party games using UE4 tend to be less impressive. Although DQ11 on PS4 looks solid. I feel PS4 fans over react when a game isnt 1080p.

Yeah it is ultimately the studio that decide what resolution they want to target. A lot of them when working with UE4 simply tend to opt for the engine's high quality but expensive suite of effects and take the hit in pixel count. 

DonFerrari said:

Prefer that I use Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, God of War, Spider-man or Red Dead Redemption 2 for examples that would qualify for the "open world" (and in GoW case it is a single set piece without any loads in between) that look and play leagues above DQXI to accept that there really isn't excuse for it not reaching 1080p? It was a design decision probably to save cost. And it isn't made by a small no name studio so that shouldn't qualify as excuse as well.

It's still very much apples to oranges though. None of those games are UE4 titles for a start.

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
Mr Puggsly on 30 October 2019
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah it is ultimately the studio that decide what resolution they want to target. A lot of them when working with UE4 simply tend to opt for the engine's high quality but expensive suite of effects and take the hit in pixel count. 

It's still very much apples to oranges though. None of those games are UE4 titles for a start.

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Based on the mixed results of UE4, I suspect its an easy engine to work with but difficult or costly to create a polished, well optimized product.

AAA exclusives primarily have shown the engine is viable for 8th gen consoles. But sometimes it seems developers should opt for a different engine. Some studios for example have had great results sticking with UE3.



Recently Completed: 
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Metallox on 30 October 2019

Have some of you even considered just how GOOD Dragon Quest XI looks on PS4 and beyond? Even if it runs at 900p on the base PS4, it still looks astonishing, I wouldn't leave it out in a top 10 of best looking games in the system.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

DonFerrari on 30 October 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Based on the mixed results of UE4, I suspect its an easy engine to work with but difficult or costly to create a polished, well optimized product.

AAA exclusives primarily have shown the engine is viable for 8th gen consoles. But sometimes it seems developers should opt for a different engine. Some studios for example have had great results sticking with UE3.

It is a fair statement that sure we can't confirm, but makes sense.

Metallox said:
Have some of you even considered just how GOOD Dragon Quest XI looks on PS4 and beyond? Even if it runs at 900p on the base PS4, it still looks astonishing, I wouldn't leave it out in a top 10 of best looking games in the system.

I would, easily.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Metallox on 30 October 2019
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Based on the mixed results of UE4, I suspect its an easy engine to work with but difficult or costly to create a polished, well optimized product.

AAA exclusives primarily have shown the engine is viable for 8th gen consoles. But sometimes it seems developers should opt for a different engine. Some studios for example have had great results sticking with UE3.

It is a fair statement that sure we can't confirm, but makes sense.

Metallox said:
Have some of you even considered just how GOOD Dragon Quest XI looks on PS4 and beyond? Even if it runs at 900p on the base PS4, it still looks astonishing, I wouldn't leave it out in a top 10 of best looking games in the system.

I would, easily.

You're weird, tbh. So not surprising. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Around the Network
curl-6 on 30 October 2019
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah it is ultimately the studio that decide what resolution they want to target. A lot of them when working with UE4 simply tend to opt for the engine's high quality but expensive suite of effects and take the hit in pixel count. 

It's still very much apples to oranges though. None of those games are UE4 titles for a start.

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Sorry, but that's just not realistic; if it runs at 900p/30fps in actuality, there is simply no way the headroom is there for it to hit 1080p/60fps in its current form.

The fact is, just because something looks cartoony, doesn't mean it's not demanding on the hardware. If it wasn't demanding, there wouldn't be any need for "corner cutting" as getting a non-demanding game to 1080p on PS4 isn't costly in the first place.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 30 October 2019

Mr Puggsly on 30 October 2019
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

Don't blame the engine. It isn't a poor engine, and Pug gave you Days Gone and others as examples of games with much higher graphics done on UE4.

It was simply a design choice and probably corner cutting decision to save money. And if fans of the game are happy with the result and the game sold well they have little reason to worry. But I won't agree that this game couldn't have been made on 1080p60fps on PS4 without losing the rest of the effects.

Sorry, but that's just not realistic; if it runs at 900p/30fps in actuality, there is simply no way the headroom is there for it to hit 1080p/60fps in its current form.

The fact is, just because something looks cartoony, doesn't mean it's not demanding on the hardware. If it wasn't demanding, there wouldn't be any need for "corner cutting" as getting a non-demanding game to 1080p on PS4 isn't costly in the first place.

I agree, but nobody would argue UE4 has often shown to be efficient. It also appears late ports using UE4 seem to benefit from improved optimzation probably from engine updates. For example, Hellblade optimization seemed to have improved for X1's late port and Switch likely benefitted as well.

I feel like studios relying on UE4 is often getting underwhelming results. But they do this because its evidently easier and scales fairly well.



Recently Completed: 
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curl-6 on 30 October 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

Sorry, but that's just not realistic; if it runs at 900p/30fps in actuality, there is simply no way the headroom is there for it to hit 1080p/60fps in its current form.

The fact is, just because something looks cartoony, doesn't mean it's not demanding on the hardware. If it wasn't demanding, there wouldn't be any need for "corner cutting" as getting a non-demanding game to 1080p on PS4 isn't costly in the first place.

I agree, but nobody would argue UE4 has often shown to be efficient. It also appears late ports using UE4 seem to benefit from improved optimzation probably from engine updates. For example, Hellblade optimization seemed to have improved for X1's late port and Switch likely benefitted as well.

I feel like studios relying on UE4 is often getting underwhelming results. But they do this because its evidently easier and scales fairly well.

Yeah UE4 definitely seems to favour quality over efficiency in terms of its feature set. It's a pretty demanding engine in general. 



Mr Puggsly on 31 October 2019
curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I agree, but nobody would argue UE4 has often shown to be efficient. It also appears late ports using UE4 seem to benefit from improved optimzation probably from engine updates. For example, Hellblade optimization seemed to have improved for X1's late port and Switch likely benefitted as well.

I feel like studios relying on UE4 is often getting underwhelming results. But they do this because its evidently easier and scales fairly well.

Yeah UE4 definitely seems to favour quality over efficiency in terms of its feature set. It's a pretty demanding engine in general. 

From what I can tell it seems pretty good on the CPU side, it must be given the Switch is maintaining solid performance. I was surprised Ark runs as well as it does on Switch even if it looks like mud.

Its the GPU side that seems to be resource intensive. I mean we are seeing what is sometimes middling graphics take unusual resolution reductions.

I believe one of the best reasons to buy a X1X is to polish up some UE4 games. Those are some of the titles that see the biggest improvments.



Recently Completed: 
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fatslob-:O on 31 October 2019

UE4 is clearly not a well optimized engine for home consoles ...

Square Enix and the others should stop using it and build their own custom engine or pick something else better ...