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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can the Rape Culture in the West be Reduced with Guns?

Dark_Lord_2008 said:

The growing popularity of porn is to blame for the rise in rape culture. Porn culture has lead to growth of Rape culture. Porn dehumanises women as being just objects, women are no longer regarded as humans because porn regards women as objects to satisfy men's desires. Behaviours and attitudes must change for a decrease in rape culture. More guns will only lead to more violent crimes committed by men.

Woman where dehumanised long before porn was a big thing. The problem is when man also act that way towards women. Even worse when they get away with it because of their wealth and influence. Pretty much every for of media attributes to dehumanisation of women. Be it music, video games or movies it's not just porn. That's simply the most direct way to do so. But even without media people will dehumanise people  (it also happens the other way around). As for your last point I agree that more guns means more violence. But also that counts for both sexes (wouldn't dare to assume a gender) although people with the chromosomes XY are naturally more violent and rapist. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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On the concept of "rape culture" - I am not so certain that exists in the West - unless you go by a looser Swedish-type definition.

If you go to some countries, and some specific areas of countries, there definitely is a sort of a culture where men are encouraged to manipulate, dehumanize, and harass women, and this is deemed "just being a man." It's a belief that men (or masculine men) are inherently uncontrollable around women and should be expected to be always trying to get in every woman's pants. Ironically, you see this sort of stuff in the socially-conservative regions where sex is considered more shameful.

I don't know if that is quite "rape culture," but it is definitely a normalization and encouragement of some very toxic behaviour in the name of masculinity. Masculinity is different in different areas - so, to Germans, the Latin American idea of masculinity is VEEEERRRY different from ours; neither is right or wrong, just different. In some cultures, it is seen as masculine to beat up women and establish dominance; and in the vast majority of the west (sadly not all) of the west, this is seen as reprehensible or animal-like, and the opposite of masculine behaviour.

 

 

Then there is râpé culture, which is also bad!

Last edited by Jumpin - on 11 April 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

On the concept of "rape culture" - I am not so certain that exists in the West - unless you go by a looser Swedish-type definition.

If you go to some countries, and some specific areas of countries, there definitely is a sort of a culture where men are encouraged to manipulate, dehumanize, and harass women, and this is deemed "just being a man." It's a belief that men (or masculine men) are inherently uncontrollable around women and should be expected to be always trying to get in every woman's pants. Ironically, you see this sort of stuff in the socially-conservative regions where sex is considered more shameful.

I don't know if that is quite "rape culture," but it is definitely a normalization and encouragement of some very toxic behaviour in the name of masculinity. Masculinity is different in different areas - so, to Germans, the Latin American idea of masculinity is VEEEERRRY different from ours; neither is right or wrong, just different. In some cultures, it is seen as masculine to beat up women and establish dominance; and in the vast majority of the west (sadly not all) of the west, this is seen as reprehensible or animal-like, and the opposite of masculine behaviour.

 

 

Then there is râpé culture, which is also bad!

Going by a looser definition, we should start discussing the "western murder culture"... whatever that is.



Hunting Season is done...

JWeinCom said:
I'm just going to see if this topic pisses of leftists or righties more.

Still though, I'm always questioning numbers like this, whenever someone tries to start off using hard figures and then goes onto say something like, "and you gotta think that the majority of them aren't reported" how do you ever factor those unreported cases in? If they're not reported it's just speculation that they exist at all. It's like when a company claims pirates cost them billions by downloading their games... but the reality is there was never billion in the bank accounts which pirates removed, it's just that if each copy they think was pirated of their game had been bought in the form of the digital deluxe edition they would have more money in the bank, but you're multiplying numbers which are not quantitative but qualitative based on figures you think in your head based on a bias towards the subject.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

Jumpin said:

On the concept of "rape culture" - I am not so certain that exists in the West - unless you go by a looser Swedish-type definition.

If you go to some countries, and some specific areas of countries, there definitely is a sort of a culture where men are encouraged to manipulate, dehumanize, and harass women, and this is deemed "just being a man." It's a belief that men (or masculine men) are inherently uncontrollable around women and should be expected to be always trying to get in every woman's pants. Ironically, you see this sort of stuff in the socially-conservative regions where sex is considered more shameful.

I don't know if that is quite "rape culture," but it is definitely a normalization and encouragement of some very toxic behaviour in the name of masculinity. Masculinity is different in different areas - so, to Germans, the Latin American idea of masculinity is VEEEERRRY different from ours; neither is right or wrong, just different. In some cultures, it is seen as masculine to beat up women and establish dominance; and in the vast majority of the west (sadly not all) of the west, this is seen as reprehensible or animal-like, and the opposite of masculine behaviour.

 

 

Then there is râpé culture, which is also bad!

Rape is so funny.

In my view of it, rape culture is any environment wherein predatory sexual behavior is treated as normal or trivial. I trust you'll forgive me for embracing this broad, intolerant definition thereof.

I am conversely not a liberal when it comes to gender definitions. Masculine and feminine, in my view of it, are just gendered ways of saying dominant and submissive respectively. For a man to want to be a "manly" man is for him to want to be a controlling man, and for a woman to want to be a "feminine" woman is for her to want to be controlled and demeaned. I don't view it as more complicated than that. An egalitarian society features no such concepts, in my opinion.

Liberals love to speak in careful nuances. "Mainstream" porn. "Toxic" masculinity. Etc. In reality, there is no other kind of masculinity, but only different strategies and degrees to which it is tolerated by a given society. That is why, despite all these different forms and expressions of masculinity existing around the world that you highlight, there is not a single country that treats women as the equals of men overall. Not even one. And it also why rape is a particular crime committed almost exclusively by men in each case.



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Jaicee said:
Jumpin said:

On the concept of "rape culture" - I am not so certain that exists in the West - unless you go by a looser Swedish-type definition.

If you go to some countries, and some specific areas of countries, there definitely is a sort of a culture where men are encouraged to manipulate, dehumanize, and harass women, and this is deemed "just being a man." It's a belief that men (or masculine men) are inherently uncontrollable around women and should be expected to be always trying to get in every woman's pants. Ironically, you see this sort of stuff in the socially-conservative regions where sex is considered more shameful.

I don't know if that is quite "rape culture," but it is definitely a normalization and encouragement of some very toxic behaviour in the name of masculinity. Masculinity is different in different areas - so, to Germans, the Latin American idea of masculinity is VEEEERRRY different from ours; neither is right or wrong, just different. In some cultures, it is seen as masculine to beat up women and establish dominance; and in the vast majority of the west (sadly not all) of the west, this is seen as reprehensible or animal-like, and the opposite of masculine behaviour.

 

 

Then there is râpé culture, which is also bad!

Rape is so funny.

In my view of it, rape culture is any environment wherein predatory sexual behavior is treated as normal or trivial. I trust you'll forgive me for embracing this broad, intolerant definition thereof.

I am conversely not a liberal when it comes to gender definitions. Masculine and feminine, in my view of it, are just gendered ways of saying dominant and submissive respectively. For a man to want to be a "manly" man is for him to want to be a controlling man, and for a woman to want to be a "feminine" woman is for her to want to be controlled and demeaned. I don't view it as more complicated than that. An egalitarian society features no such concepts, in my opinion.

Liberals love to speak in careful nuances. "Mainstream" porn. "Toxic" masculinity. Etc. In reality, there is no other kind of masculinity, but only different strategies and degrees to which it is tolerated by a given society. That is why, despite all these different forms and expressions of masculinity existing around the world that you highlight, there is not a single country that treats women as the equals of men overall. Not even one. And it also why rape is a particular crime committed almost exclusively by men in each case.

Really? The biggest enemies of the porn industry are very clearly right-wing governments and activist groups. And if you think masculine = dominance, and feminine = submissive, then I don't think you have actually seen a lot of mainstream porn... or paid for sex in Amsterdam before :P

 

I'd suggest the best definition of masculinity is a culture's view what makes you most sexually attractive to women, and the best definition of femininity is what makes you most attractive to men.

That said, the strategy of trying to manipulate or dominate women clearly doesn't work very well in most areas of most Western countries these days; it's not a new thing either: the idea of 'the submissive woman' is very old-fashioned, even for our grandparents. It's a pre-WWII mentality that has largely died off in most westernized countries.

The countries where that idea hasn't died off yet (I'm looking at Japan) clearly DO NOT have nearly as much sex as we do. The people who TRY to stick to those old-fashioned ways are not having nearly as much fun as everyone else. The more wide-range sexually liberal approach is clearly the winning strategy in the modern westernized world; and with the continued rise of social technology, expect that trend to continue.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

adisababa said:
What a dumb question, we don't live in a rape culture... what a poorly thought out question and a stupid and unwarranted accusation.

All of the western world condemns rape, it's a serious crime that basically imprisons a person all their life, even then they'll be outcasts from society, shunned and treated as trash.

In no part of the world does ANYBODY sympathise with a rapist, it is not normalised or excused in any part of the world, especially western culture.

And guns don't solve anything, they only increase the chances of crime, homicides and mass shootings, it's counter productive and quite backward thinking. Violence does NOT solve violence.

Rape culture is more the fact that many years ago wouldn't have considered a guy having sex with a barely conscious girl as rape. Or people thinking that a husband initiating sex with his wife whilst she sleeps is ok.



Ka-pi96 said:
The US already has guns... and still has plenty of rapes, so clearly the answer is no.

So true, on top of that there is a huge rape problem in all branches of the military which has even more guns then the civilian population. 



Maybe not guns, but knives and bats certainly.
Remember, those weapons are more deadly.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Maybe not guns, but knives and bats certainly.
Remember, those weapons are more deadly.

LOL :P I imagined this in the wrong way

Dogs are also quite dangerous, they kill and injure a lot of people each year and they could be used to get more rapes, but yeah guns should do the job.

But I don´t really think that rape culture should be made bigger with the help of guns. Less guns and more knowledge to reduce the number of rapes. Happy people who appreciate others, don´t often rape their friends/family or even strangers. In the West, what ever that means, rapes are most often done by men to someone they know and because of that, knives, dogs, guns or pepper sprays don´t offer much protection. There could be chance that the rape victim kills him/herself with gun, so in that way it might be a solution to the problem (in a twisted and wrong way), but more likely the rapist has the gun/knive/bat/bat/dog and it makes it easier to rape.

So yes more weapons if more rapes are needed and less weapons if less rapes are wanted. I want less rapes and would like to see less guns, guns should be for hunting and not for "protection".