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Forums - Politics Discussion - German election tomorrow

 

Who do your want to win?

CDU/CSU 31 10.69%
 
SPD 23 7.93%
 
Left 30 10.34%
 
Greens 12 4.14%
 
FDP 17 5.86%
 
AfD 59 20.34%
 
another one of the parties on ballot 6 2.07%
 
a party not on ballot 6 2.07%
 
no one 17 5.86%
 
see results 89 30.69%
 
Total:290
LadyJasmine on 25 September 2017

I have great doubts politicians read most of the legislation they vote on...

Most are corrupt and worried about keeping their party in power, so I don't have much faith in them at all...

I dont think on the budget and all bills there should be a direct democracy...

 

However, on something like Brexit or something of that nature, I think such issues can ONLY legitimately be settled by a referendum...

On certain issues, politicians are incapable of making decisions...they don't want to do anything drastic as it requires effort and may cost them vote...

 

Look at electoral reform in Canada, every time a politician gets elected and says they will reform the system...they get corrupted by power and never change it. 

Like can you really trust politicians



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palou on 25 September 2017
LadyJasmine said:
Errorist76 said:

How many immigrants who didn't know English did your nation let in in its existence?! Your clearly xenophobic and full of prejudices.

Most immigrants that come into Canada these days come through the points-based system that values learning either English or French beforehand.

Also, many of the refugees brought into the nation were pre-selected by the government as well. 

Furthermore, I  have read a lot of German politicians have looked to the Canadian system in how to shape the German system...

Reality is the Germany refugee experiment in 2015 was a disaster that was only corrected afterward shifting the focusing on reducing the numbers to a manageable levels and to focus on national security issues. 

 

The success of a refugee policy system is based on in this order.

1: Security

2: Ability to provide assistance 

3. Compassion 

One thing people have to understand is that in 2015, the infrastructure to properly parse/block the large wave of migrants entering the EU simply did not exist. At the same time, Southern Europe, the port of entry for illegal immigration, was recovering from a bad financial crisis, and most definitely could not need hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants entering undercutting labour in the black market. By offering legal recognition, Merkel succsefully sucked all of these into Germany, which, while equally unable to parse all the individuals, at least had the funds temporarily keep them there, until the EU got its brureaucratic systems up to par.

 

Notice that, while officialy talking about the necessity of open welcome in Germany, Merkel has, in the back, very actively worked to reduce migrant flow to the EU, negotiating a deal with Erdogan to close off the Turkey route, helping Italy finance its efforts in the mediterranean, as well as semi-offical groups in Libya to crack down on migrant traffickers on the African coast.

 

New arrivals to Europe have now been reduced to a manageable level (ca. 200 000/year, down from 1.3 million, in 2015): http://migration.iom.int/europe/



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

LadyJasmine on 25 September 2017
palou said:
LadyJasmine said:

Most immigrants that come into Canada these days come through the points-based system that values learning either English or French beforehand.

Also, many of the refugees brought into the nation were pre-selected by the government as well. 

Furthermore, I  have read a lot of German politicians have looked to the Canadian system in how to shape the German system...

Reality is the Germany refugee experiment in 2015 was a disaster that was only corrected afterward shifting the focusing on reducing the numbers to a manageable levels and to focus on national security issues. 

 

The success of a refugee policy system is based on in this order.

1: Security

2: Ability to provide assistance 

3. Compassion 

One thing people have to understand is that in 2015, the infrastructure to properly parse/block the large wave of migrants entering the EU simply did not exist. At the same time, Southern Europe, the port of entry for illegal immigration, was recovering from a bad financial crisis, and most definitely could not need hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants entering undercutting labour in the black market. By offering legal recognition, Merkel succsefully sucked all of these into Germany, which, while equally unable to parse all the individuals, at least had the funds temporarily keep them there, until the EU got its brureaucratic systems up to par.

 

Notice that, while officialy talking about the necessity of open welcome in Germany, Merkel has, in the back, very actively worked to reduce migrant flow to the EU, negotiating a deal with Erdogan to close off the Turkey route, helping Italy finance its efforts in the mediterranean, as well as semi-offical groups in Libya to crack down on migrant traffickers on the African coast.

 

New arrivals to Europe have now been reduced to a manageable level (ca. 200 000/year, down from 1.3 million, in 2015): http://migration.iom.int/europe/

 

So, in reality, the open border policy was a complete failure in 2015 and then rather than being honest about it...

They are mostly trying to cut off the flow and claim success the refugee policy worked... when it only worked by mostly shutting the doors closed?

 

Reality was taking 1 million plus people was a mistake as it totally destabilized immigration and refugee policies around the western world from compassion to closing borders.

 

Like countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and such have rather soured thier attitudes from open doors to be far more restrictive.

 

 



palou on 25 September 2017
LadyJasmine said:
palou said:

One thing people have to understand is that in 2015, the infrastructure to properly parse/block the large wave of migrants entering the EU simply did not exist. At the same time, Southern Europe, the port of entry for illegal immigration, was recovering from a bad financial crisis, and most definitely could not need hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants entering undercutting labour in the black market. By offering legal recognition, Merkel succsefully sucked all of these into Germany, which, while equally unable to parse all the individuals, at least had the funds temporarily keep them there, until the EU got its brureaucratic systems up to par.

 

Notice that, while officialy talking about the necessity of open welcome in Germany, Merkel has, in the back, very actively worked to reduce migrant flow to the EU, negotiating a deal with Erdogan to close off the Turkey route, helping Italy finance its efforts in the mediterranean, as well as semi-offical groups in Libya to crack down on migrant traffickers on the African coast.

 

New arrivals to Europe have now been reduced to a manageable level (ca. 200 000/year, down from 1.3 million, in 2015): http://migration.iom.int/europe/

 

So, in reality, the open border policy was a complete failure in 2015 and then rather than being honest about it...

They are mostly trying to cut off the flow and claim success the refugee policy worked... when it only worked by mostly shutting the doors closed?

 

Reality was taking 1 million plus people was a mistake as it totally destabilized immigration and refugee policies around the western world from compassion to closing borders.

 

Like countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and such have rather soured thier attitudes from open doors to be far more restrictive.

 

 

I think you misuderstood my comment. In reality, millions of migrants entering the EU was never *not an option* in 2015, because, as said, EU did not have the infrastructure to prevent that from being the case. It was something unprecedented, that they were not prepared for.

 

Germany alegalized the 1 million refugees because these would have otherwise stayed, illegally, in the South of Europe, which would not have been manageable for said southern neighbours (and Germany needed the weaker EU members to recover, at that time). If you haven't noticed, Germany only has EU borders, by land or sea. Any open-border policy existing in Germany implies that the refugees were, illegaly, in another EU state beforehand, which is worse than them being supervised, inside Germany. Merkel drained the EU of its illegal residents. She never stood in the way of the EU attempting to stop further illegal migrants from entering, and has, in fact worked towards that for a long time already.

European politicians mobilized since day 1 to prevent further influx into the EU. However, the infrastructure to do so isn't something that you can create out of thin air. 



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Zoombael on 25 September 2017

Aw no, election is over already? Missed it... again. Uhwell, i can still play

http://bundesfighter.de



Hunting Season is done...

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palou on 26 September 2017
Zoombael said:
Aw no, election is over already? Missed it... again. Uhwell, i can still play

http://bundesfighter.de

That's so awesome, as a concept, that I'm actually seriously dissapointed at the lack of balance, between the moves of each players. I mean, Linder has no reason to ever stop spamming his frame-1 aerial with ridiculous dammage output, even if his special gauge is filled. 



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

monocle_layton on 26 September 2017
GoOnKid said:

 

Lafiel said:

hm .. imo Merkel is a true conservative and as such she does stand for  "things are going well, so let's change nothing"

Right. I am very happy that she doesn't need some sort of agenda to push like building a wall or such nonsense. She stands for professionalism and sobriety. Since she runs the country germany executes much better economically and regained a lot of international trust. Don't fucking up a country means picking the right decisions every day, which is by far not as easy as some may think. It's also worth mentioning that this is a time where she opposes to far rights throughout the entire world, not only within germany, and she's doing very fine.

What are her approval ratings? I can't find anything recent

vivster said:
Mnementh said:

Flip-flopping on nuclear power shows that it is more moving along the lines of public opinion. The description earlier in this thread as pebble in the river is surprisingly fitting.

But isn't that what true democracy is all about? Acting upon issues when things are changing and the majority of the people speak out on important issues. One could say Merkel is one of the few truly democratic leaders that's not just bound to her party or voters, but all citizens.

It's quite sad how people think they 'expose' leaders if they change their fucking mind. I see conservatives constantly talk about how Hillary was actually homophobic because she thought only men/women should get married...in the 90's.

 

There comes a time where a leader who can adapt is much more respectable than one who is never willing to change

Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Merkel has been one of the greatest European leaders in the last 50 years. Germany has one of the strongest economies in the world. Merkel will remain German Chancellor for a very long time.

It's honestly disappointing to me that she's considered a conservative in Europe. Trump is an absolute joke, and I'd happily take someone like her.

Barozi said:
LurkerJ said:
Good to have you Germans condescending to Americans politics and lecturing us about which party is evil and which is nice. Newsflash, there's only one party in the USA, corporatists and lobbyists run the show. Moreover, I'd take those so-called neo-nazis over Islam apologists/importers any day of the week.

Americans are lucky their immigration problems are mainly related benign Mexicans crossing their imaginary border, we'll see how "progressive" Europe become when Islamists stop being a "minority", which is happening sooner than anyone has predicted.

Really? With only ~4% of the EU population being moslems, that would take centuries to change.
Soon....lol

But according to Paul Joseph Watson and Infowars, Muslims are already conquering Europe!!!1! I read it on Facebook two!!!!1!!one!1!

LadyJasmine said:

I am getting tired of people here talking about the amazing virtues of the German Model of boring politics...

A fierce debate in how society should conduct itself is healthy...

There are other models that work just as well or even better...

The Canadian model allows for debate and disagreement and we have a normal country that is consistently ranked above Germany as a great place to live.

The idea that you must have always have a  consensus centrist coalition and no actual serious disagreements is rather boring.

Here in Canada, the major split is left vs right and it is a true contrast of ideas and direction for the country and gives people a clear choice.

For example, the choice would be yes to more refugees or no to more refugees in the next election between the two main parties and that causes a lot of debate, anger and division but people have a clear choice.

 

Nothing wrong with not turning everything into a black and white situation. Why should it simply be more or less refugees? Perhaps actually expanding on issues and having more varied solutions would be better for everyone


Mnementh on 26 September 2017
monocle_layton said:
vivster said:

But isn't that what true democracy is all about? Acting upon issues when things are changing and the majority of the people speak out on important issues. One could say Merkel is one of the few truly democratic leaders that's not just bound to her party or voters, but all citizens.

It's quite sad how people think they 'expose' leaders if they change their fucking mind. I see conservatives constantly talk about how Hillary was actually homophobic because she thought only men/women should get married...in the 90's.

 

There comes a time where a leader who can adapt is much more respectable than one who is never willing to change

It isn't about changing ones mind, it is about the ability to predict what the consequences of your vote are. You elect a person, but can't say how the person will decide - why bother voting at all? Sure, politician can change their opinion over time, but I want to know more or less what they'll do the next 4 years (how long they stay in power in germany), so that I can base my vote on that. Merkel actually has optimized the way she acts, so I cannot predict anything. The SPD too by the way, hence I didn't vote either one.

Again, the problem wouldn't be as pressing, if I could decide about important things directly - direct democracy as in Switzerland.



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GoOnKid on 26 September 2017
monocle_layton said:
GoOnKid said:

 

Right. I am very happy that she doesn't need some sort of agenda to push like building a wall or such nonsense. She stands for professionalism and sobriety. Since she runs the country germany executes much better economically and regained a lot of international trust. Don't fucking up a country means picking the right decisions every day, which is by far not as easy as some may think. It's also worth mentioning that this is a time where she opposes to far rights throughout the entire world, not only within germany, and she's doing very fine.

What are her approval ratings? I can't find anything recent

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/194418/umfrage/bewertung-der-bundeskanzlerin-angela-merkel/

On the question of whether she is a good chancelor or not this survey shows that 69% of the votes favor her.

Unfortunately I don't know how reliable or how old this is.

This article http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/martin-schulz-so-unbeliebt-wie-nie-angela-merkel-verliert-an-zustimmung-a-1162138.html says she has an approval rate of 59% in august 2017. She lost ten points compared to the last survey, which conveniently fits my first source.



Errorist76 on 26 September 2017
palou said:
Zoombael said:
Aw no, election is over already? Missed it... again. Uhwell, i can still play

http://bundesfighter.de

That's so awesome, as a concept, that I'm actually seriously dissapointed at the lack of balance, between the moves of each players. I mean, Linder has no reason to ever stop spamming his frame-1 aerial with ridiculous dammage output, even if his special gauge is filled. 

 

Love that. I'd rather play Masters of Germany though :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElpvkA-7WWM