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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - MCV: NX Graphics In Between A PS3 And PS4

oniyide said:
Soundwave said:

Well a vanilla NX home console is even less original. There would be five (5!) stationary consoles on the market (PS4, PS4 Neo, XB1, XB Scoprio, NX) all basically trying to do the same thing. 

There isn't a tablet on the market like this that can play console quality games. There is no single device that can plausibly function as a tablet + 3DS + Playstation 4 and do it anywhere you want. 

Last year there were about 30-35 million home consoles sold total (PS4 + XB1 + Wii U combined). For tablets that number is closer to 250 million. 

Even if Nintendo is only taking home a small number of that, it's a much larger pool to draw from. Nintendo can also undercut other tablet makers on price because they can sell their NX at/near cost because they make money on games. 

A $269.99 NX with a bleeding edge Tegra X2 with home dock included for TV play versus a $400 16GB iPad Mini? Value proposition is heavily in Nintendo's favor here. 

ok...didnt say anything about home consoles but cool

this wont do those things either. What makes this a PS4? it wont get half of the games that system gets. The tablets right now are pretty powerful, you could play Bioshock and thats from last gen. 

It is a larger pool to draw from granted people would actually want this over the more popular brands and IMHO I dont see them wanting that. People buy expensive ipads all the time Apple has that kind of brand where that is possible. Ninty doesnt so price isnt even gonna be that big of a factor if people dont wnat it anyway. 

Value is in the eye of the consumer. your average consumer doesnt even know what a Tegra x2 is so it doesnt really matter. There are cheaper tablets and people still buy the 400 dollar ipad. 

Actually I think about half the games the PS4 gets is about right. If the reports of the hardware power are true, it'll likely get most PS4 Japanese games and somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the Western PS4 games. It'll get all the 3DS/Vita devs too. Then you'll have Android devs, this could be interesting because if it indeed runs Android apps, you might see a lot of "NX enhanced" Android games that play much better with physical controls made for the NX and maybe graphical enhancements too. 

If the 3DS was somehow able to run PS4 engines, even downscaled ones, with a userbase of even 40-50 million, many developers will throw ports at it. 

40-50 million is nothing to sneeze at, the XBox One probably won't ever get there (not with the Scorpio announcement). 



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Kerotan said:
Soundwave said:

They should just offer a SCD dock for people who are anal retentive about home performance. 

400 GFLOP portable mode (540p for PS4 tier games, 720p + 60 fps for Wii U tier games)

1 TFLOP home dock mode (900p for most games)

2+ TFLOP SCD home mode (must purchase SCD seperately)

You want the extra performance, then you should be willing to pay for it. 

It's just a shame they can't release a really ambitious home console that pushes gaming like the gamecube did for its time.  I guess that's just the way things have gone. 

Does the industry need 5 consoles trying to do the same exact thing? 

Is that even healthy for the industry?

As long as this is a good sized jump from the Wii U in graphics I'll be happy, it becomes fairly hard to distinquish graphical difference once you go past Wii/PS3/360 tier graphics I find. 

I mean you can create basically any kind of game scenario and have it look good at that point. To be honest a portable this powerful is honestly a bigger hardware achievement than the PS4 or XB1 (*if it indeed is this powerful*). 



hunter_alien said:
Soundwave said:

PSV is no where close to a PS3 power wise. It can't even run the Uncharted game that it does has (which is a large downgrade in graphics from the PS3 games) at even a native 960x540 resolution. 

Bullshit. I have Uncharted GA and Killzone Mercenaries. It puts to shame 90% of games released on the PS3. Its not quite as powerfull as a PS3, but its pretty damn close. 

Nahhh, you remember that way too good. Maybe because you've played on a small screen and didn't really realize the diffeence between Vita and PS3.



barneystinson69 said:

Nintendo is really scaring me. I really hope this is a handheld, and not a home console.

It's 90% handheld + home



That's good enough for me.



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crissindahouse said:
hunter_alien said:

Bullshit. I have Uncharted GA and Killzone Mercenaries. It puts to shame 90% of games released on the PS3. Its not quite as powerfull as a PS3, but its pretty damn close. 

Nahhh, you remember that way too good. Maybe because you've played on a small screen and didn't really realize the diffeence between Vita and PS3.

There is obviously a difference between them power wise, but there ios no denying that the PSV is far closer to the PS3 than the PS2. But I derailed this thread already to much, so I see no reason to discuss this here anymore.

 



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Mbolibombo said:
"NX Graphics In Between A PS3 And PS4"

Like asking "when do we eat?" and getting the answer "sometime between now and tomorrow"

Haha perfect



People need to stop thinking this is a home console. It is not. This is a hand held. No matter how you slice it, this thing will be massively successful if what is being rumored is true. How can it fail? Nintendo titles, hand held third party support, cutting edge technology, and the ability to be played on a television. What is to go wrong?

But people need to understand this is NOT a home console. Those expectations and comparisons are completely off base. How much clearer do you want these people to be? It uses cartridges for fucks sake. This is not a freaking home console. It can be played at home, but this is a hand held. At this point, the people that still think this will be a home console are straight out being ignorant.

And to those that think this console and the attachment for the television or any other parts should be sold separately, stop it. We better get everything we need, in the box or Nintendo is letting us down. This whole, multiple SKU approach has been a bane on the video game industry since its introduction. One of the failures of Wii U was that very approach. Keep it simple. If you want to reach the largest possible audience, keep everyone at an equal starting point. Just put it all in the box from day one. Keep this shit as simple as possible. Pack it all in and the system will sell itself to everyone.



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Soundwave said:
Roketan said:

 Also, people were saying the same with WiiU.

from the sounds of it, NX while not as powerful as a PS4, can still handle direct ports, that's a pretty big difference too. 

 

Im sorry but im not seeing nothing that sounds like that.  In fact every single aspect (at this early rumor stage) makes NX a hassle for porting current gen multiplats.

1. CPU - NX wont be x86 from the rumors. Wii U is power pc while PS4/XB1 are x86

2. GPU - even if we use the gpu raw power estimates you provided, NX is still vastly weaker than X1 and is only slightly stronger than Wii U on the portable form. Even If we assume that Nintendo adopts this scalability idea where the NX is weakest in portable mode but see an improvement when docked then add expansion ports and so on, you still need to develop the NX port for the weakest version first. Thats how it works cause it is much easier to scale a game up than down. NX ports will need to be made for the "350-400 gflop" version first which is almost as under powered as Wii U. it doesn't matter if NX has 12 tegra x3 expansion slots when docked, the dev has to make the game work on the base portable console which will be a hastle. also flops to resolution doesn't scale 1:1 like you assumed

3. RAM - the best most cutting edge mobile ram provides 32Gb/s which is less than half of Xbox one's bandwidth..... Just a reminder, XB1's low bandwidth caused a problem for many devs trying to get their games to 1080p, they needed to use the esram (at 32MB at 204 Gb/s) which still provided a struggle to get 1080p on AAA games. So not only does Nintendo need to put a TON of ram for a mobile (8 GB) they also need to find a way to improve it way beyond what samsung could do.

4. GAME SIZE - 32GB cartridges are good for a portable but with PS4/XB1 already providing devs with dual layer blu-rays that hold 48GB (50% more), devs are going to have to put in work to get their game sizes under control. you can argue that Nintendo can make the slot able to read 64 GB as well but those cartridges will cost considerably more which is probably why the rumor has Nintendo chooses 32GB. and lets face it, 3rd party devs need more than 32GB but does Nintendo really need more?

5. HDD - you will not have a HDD on a portable. flash memory cost a lot more than HDD so how much storage can nintendo afford? and anyone who played on PS4/XB1 knows that games routinely launch with large update patches that fill even a 500 GB pretty quick. The NX will have the advatage of not needing to install the game due to cartridges having faster loading BUT that doesn't solve the problem of the large post launch patches that fill your HDD. what about DLC as well? how will Nintendo handle this?

 

These are the problems that persist with third party support. Sony and MS went through a shit ton to get their platforms to be open to third parties. you think Nintendo can do everything Sony/MS did but on a HANDHELD? number 4 and 5 on my list are fixable problems but if NX launches with any of the first 3 problems then 3rd party multiplat support is already doomed. Expecting NX to have good 3rd party support multiplats is just so implausible for multiple reasons. for me personally I think the above reasons are actually still really good for a handheld, it is nice that Nintendo is going with some good tech in their handheld this gen like tegra x1/x2 and 32GB cartridges are a good size. I like the idea of NX but not one thing about it suggest 8th gen multiplats.



Soundwave said:
AZWification said:

Really makes me wonder about that thing's price and battery life..

Battery will have to be huge, probably like 10000 MaH if not slightly more ... good thing is batteries are dirt cheap, even at retail you can buy a battery that size for like $25 if you shop around, meaning the price for Nintendo ordering in millions would probably be under $15 for that part. 

10000 mAh? In a handheld form factor? How heavy and clunky would such a handheld be? And how much heat would it produce in demanding games, if it draws more power than an average tablet? 

Also we are talking about Nintendo, who gave the Wii U tablet controller a measly 1500 mAh battery although it had space for a much bigger battery.