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Forums - Gaming Discussion - DX12 Adoption For Xbox One Is A Risk For Large Scale Production, Cross Support With PS4 Is A Factor

rolltide101x on 20 March 2015
shikamaru317 said:

There's nothing stopping devs from having a DX12 build of a game for PC and Xbox One, and a separate build for PS4 that uses it's graphics API. Of course there's risk because having a seperate PS4 build adds to a game's budget, but there's also the risk of Xbox One users ignoring your game if you don't support DirectX 12. People want the most out of their console, ignoring that is a mistake imo. AAA devs and most AA devs ultimately can afford seperate PC/Xbox One and PS4 builds, I only see this being an issue for the smaller indie devs, and most indie games don't have good enough graphics to need DX12's benefits on Xbox One anyway.

DX12 has very little to do with the XBOne. How many times does MS have to say this?

http://wccftech.com/phil-spencer-directx-1-xbox-one-hardware-graphics/

"Phil Spencer: DirectX 12 Won’t Change Xbox One’s Hardware and Graphics "

 

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/06/17/phil-spencer-directx-12-not-a-massive-change-for-xbox-one-explains-expectations-from-1st-party-studios/

 

 

"Phil Spencer: DirectX 12 Not a “Massive Change” For Xbox One"




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Aeolus451 on 20 March 2015
shikamaru317 said:
Azerth said:
so put the game out on two maybe three platforms using dx12 since its supposed to be easy to port crom pc to xbox. then work on the ps4 version while making money

You have a point. Ultimately the combined userbase of PC and Xbox One is larger than PS4, and porting between PC and Xbox One using DX12 is reportedly very easy (I believe a dev recently said it only took a few days). Seems to me like it would be a better idea for smaller devs who can't afford to develop a seperate PS4 version before launch, to develop for PC and Xbox One first, then a PS4 version later while the PC and Xbox One versions are earning money, than it would be to hold back both PC and Xbox One gamers by sticking with DX11.


Technically, you're right but what games is that the case where xbone + pc > ps4 sales? It's rare if anything. Can you find it? COD advanced warfare sold better on the ps4 than the xbone + pc. It's worse with far cry 4. ps4 > xbone + 360 + pc. AC: unity, they're almost even. I'm sure devs/publishers aren't chopping at the bit to port a game to xbone/pc over the ps4. 



walsufnir on 20 March 2015
Aeolus451 said:
shikamaru317 said:
Azerth said:
so put the game out on two maybe three platforms using dx12 since its supposed to be easy to port crom pc to xbox. then work on the ps4 version while making money

You have a point. Ultimately the combined userbase of PC and Xbox One is larger than PS4, and porting between PC and Xbox One using DX12 is reportedly very easy (I believe a dev recently said it only took a few days). Seems to me like it would be a better idea for smaller devs who can't afford to develop a seperate PS4 version before launch, to develop for PC and Xbox One first, then a PS4 version later while the PC and Xbox One versions are earning money, than it would be to hold back both PC and Xbox One gamers by sticking with DX11.


Technically, you're right but what games is that the case where xbone + pc > ps4 sales? It's rare if anything. Can you find it? COD advanced warfare sold better on the ps4 than the xbone + pc. It's worse with far cry 4. ps4 > xbone + 360 + pc. AC: unity, they're almost even. I'm sure devs/publishers aren't chopping at the bit to port a game to xbone/pc over the ps4. 


Thing is that pc is mostly digital and I don't know if vgc is good at tracking digital pc sales.



Tachikoma on 20 March 2015
Captain_Tom said:
The thing is that Vulkan/OpenCL runs on PS4 AND Xbox One just fine. No reason to use DX12 (Except on PC) considering they can also use it with Mac and linux/steam OS.

dont let reality stop the fans from insisting that coding closer to the metal with dx12 is somehow magically different than coding closer to the metal with vul/ocl

that feeling you get when you consider that cores are managed much better on consoles than they are on pc, but people still seem to think that dx12 will make more than a 3-5% difference on xbox.

In reality, until the toolset matures the effort and money to target dx12 wont offer much if any advantages to the end product of multiplatform titles.



HollyGamer on 20 March 2015

uh oh, so developer already give up making game on x86 lol, i thought they choose x86 over power PC on console lol, but they still whining and don't want to make game on different API, especially for PS4, OK i hope ace team will shine again and kill middle ware API and direct x with their close to metal magic coding on PS4, that will shut up every game developer mouth in this world.



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Aeolus451 on 20 March 2015
walsufnir said:
Aeolus451 said:


Technically, you're right but what games is that the case where xbone + pc > ps4 sales? It's rare if anything. Can you find it? COD advanced warfare sold better on the ps4 than the xbone + pc. It's worse with far cry 4. ps4 > xbone + 360 + pc. AC: unity, they're almost even. I'm sure devs/publishers aren't chopping at the bit to port a game to xbone/pc over the ps4. 


Thing is that pc is mostly digital and I don't know if vgc is good at tracking digital pc sales.



I don't know either but I'll presume that they are mostly accurate.

Hynad on 20 March 2015

HollyGamer said:

uh oh, so developer already give up making game on x86 lol


You do realize that x86 isn't an API. PC is x86, the PS4 is x86 and so is the XBox One.



HollyGamer on 20 March 2015
Hynad said:

HollyGamer said:

uh oh, so developer already give up making game on x86 lol


You do realize that x86 isn't an API. PC is x86, the PS4 is x86 and so is the XBox One.

ehm, it's not but developing on familiar arcitecture with different API is far far more easy then developing  games on different arcitecture and also had a different  API.



Zappykins on 20 March 2015

Oh, wow, some of you really just make stuff up.

Ok, at the risk of losing fan/shill status some have nominated me with, I think this article is supposed to scary people. Not exactly sure who, but it seems silly.

There is little point to develop on DirectX 11 anymore. DirectX 12 is coming and it's better all around. Not being able to feed the Graphics cards has been a problem for a while, so DX 12 changes they way the CPU(s) feed it with data so it will be better utilized.

Microsoft is positioning DriectX 12 to be THE lead platform for PC (including Steam), Xbox and Mobil. Other are positioning Vulcan. We still don't know how well SteamOS is going to work, how many developers they can get to use it And the adoption rate from customers. Much will depend on how good the tools are for it.

Now, to say that DX 12 development will significantly hurt PS4 development is kinda silly. Developers already dealt with DX8 and PS2, DX9c and PS3, and the DX 10-11 with the last few years. Microsoft is giving developers some rather good tools and gifts with DX12, so the pressure is on the others to show something better.

But also, those saying DX12 will do nothing for the Xbox One are also silly. Sure Phil said not major, but it looks easily at least 20% improvement, which he may call not major. It is significantly higher in some test, but will probably differ somewhat on each game.

As I see it's a battle for lead platform.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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Aeolus451 on 20 March 2015
shikamaru317 said:
Aeolus451 said:
walsufnir said:

Thing is that pc is mostly digital and I don't know if vgc is good at tracking digital pc sales.

I don't know either but I'll presume that they are mostly accurate.

They actually don't track PC digital sales at all. PC numbers here on VGC are physical only.


Well, shit. I wish they would. I doubt that pc + xbone > ps4 with games.