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Forums - Gaming - DX12 Adoption For Xbox One Is A Risk For Large Scale Production, Cross Support With PS4 Is A Factor

walsufnir on 19 March 2015
Ruler said:
shikamaru317 said:
Azerth said:
so put the game out on two maybe three platforms using dx12 since its supposed to be easy to port crom pc to xbox. then work on the ps4 version while making money

You have a point. Ultimately the combined userbase of PC and Xbox One is larger than PS4, and porting between PC and Xbox One using DX12 is reportedly very easy (I believe a dev recently said it only took a few days). Seems to me like it would be a better idea for smaller devs who can't afford to develop a seperate PS4 version before launch, to develop for PC and Xbox One first, then a PS4 version later while the PC and Xbox One versions are earning money, than it would be to hold back both PC and Xbox One gamers by sticking with DX11.

PC versions dont make that much money at launch and xbox user install base is smaller than ps4. The ps4 makes more money probably and in the end it has to come out on linux and mac who use openGL like PS4


What has to come? PS4 doesn't use OpenGL and we don't even know if games will be ported to Mac or Linux (SteamOS). Windows 10 will most likely have a very high adoption rate because it's free, I don't see devs switching from DX12 to Vulcan completely. The market on Windows is just too strong to leave it out.

That said, devs even ported PS2 games to OG Xbox although at the time of release there wasn't really a competition (remember the Sony slide?).



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HoloDust on 19 March 2015

Oh boy, Picard + Riker worthy facepalm.



LudicrousSpeed on 19 March 2015

There's not a huge gap in multiplats, so if DX12 makes a difference in Xbone games, I'm fine with it only being really utilized with exclusives. That's really all that normally takes advantage of a platforms atrength, anyway.



torok on 19 March 2015
walsufnir said:

Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result."


That doesn't have nothing to do withh DX11 or DX12. It's just the API of both consoles that is fairly new and still immature and suffer with these kind of problems. This is pretty much apparent when PS4 is running early games like Lego Marvel in 1080p@30fps while my PC with a GTX650, a GPU much weaker than the PS4 one, do it at max in 1080p@60fps.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

walsufnir on 19 March 2015
torok said:
walsufnir said:
 

Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result."


That doesn't have nothing to do withh DX11 or DX12. It's just the API of both consoles that is fairly new and still immature and suffer with these kind of problems. This is pretty much apparent when PS4 is running early games like Lego Marvel in 1080p@30fps while my PC with a GTX650, a GPU much weaker than the PS4 one, do it at max in 1080p@60fps.


Metro wasn't a launch game and we don't know the state of the xdk currently. No matter if it is dx12 or xdk, this was or is an issue with xbone. And we can also guess it is going to be addressed by ms, just like with the big dx12 on pc. It's up to ones personal believe if they go for the same approach on both.

I just wanted to reply as you specifically mentioned draw calls in your post.



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Dusk on 19 March 2015

Sounds like BS. This has never stopped a dev studio from supporting the likes of DX9 and DX10 then DX11. Or even OpenGL. Many studios and games do this and have for years.



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

Dusk on 19 March 2015

Many indie devs are using engines like Unity or the like that are already fully supported by the machines so it's not likely to be that big of an issue for them. Once Unity supports DX12 (if it doesn't already?) that should just give them a few extra features to work with on the X1. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

walsufnir on 19 March 2015
Lortsamler said:
Why do everyone belive that Direct 3D is so much better than OpenGL? This is not the case at all. For example,OpenGL had tesselation 3 years ahead of Direct 3D,and it also had faster drawcalls than D3D. OpenGL also had a equivalent feature to tiled resources since OpenGL 4.2. What D3D got is better optimised drivers than OpenGL got,but this is on PC,and not the case on PS4. Vulkan however is built around Mantle,and to be honest,i don't know to much about Mantle yet,but my guess is that it's atleast on par with the latest OpenGL api.


Who said that in this thread? Also let's not pretend ogl doesn't have its own issues...



Lortsamler on 19 March 2015
walsufnir said:
Lortsamler said:
Why do everyone belive that Direct 3D is so much better than OpenGL? This is not the case at all. For example,OpenGL had tesselation 3 years ahead of Direct 3D,and it also had faster drawcalls than D3D. OpenGL also had a equivalent feature to tiled resources since OpenGL 4.2. What D3D got is better optimised drivers than OpenGL got,but this is on PC,and not the case on PS4. Vulkan however is built around Mantle,and to be honest,i don't know to much about Mantle yet,but my guess is that it's atleast on par with the latest OpenGL api.


Who said that in this thread? Also let's not pretend ogl doesn't have its own issues...

It's not specific to this thread,it's what people usually belive. And i already mentioned some of the issues ogl got. Anyway what this developer in this interview claim is a non issue really. Developers is used to work with multiple api's already,and most game engines today are made for both major api's.



ctalkeb on 19 March 2015

This sounds like a very bizarre statement to make. Even today you have to make one version for the PS4 API (GNMX?), one for X1 (DX 11.X - X1 has and will continue to have a custom API as far as I know) and perhaps several different Direct X versions for PC.