By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - DX12 Adoption For Xbox One Is A Risk For Large Scale Production, Cross Support With PS4 Is A Factor

ethomaz on 19 March 2015

walsufnir said:

But you can't develop for ps4 and pc with the same sdk.

And you can also put a finger in your nose to reach your eye and see if there is dirt under your nail but people don't do that because there is a better way to do so.

There is just no reason to not use dx12 on pc and suggesting otherwise is definitely not making any sense.

Of course you can.

That what all developers do... even the first-party ones lol.

Do you ever used a console SDK? It is a PC SDK that compiles after to console... you develop to PC and test it on PC... that is why this guy is talking bullshit.



Around the Network
binary solo on 19 March 2015
walsufnir said:
ethomaz said:
lol you can develop for PC + PS4 without DX12... ops you can even add Xbone together.

The replies to me makes no sense.


But you can't develop for ps4 and pc with the same sdk.

And you can also put a finger in your nose to reach your eye and see if there is dirt under your nail but people don't do that because there is a better way to do so. 

There is just no reason to not use dx12 on pc and suggesting otherwise is definitely not making any sense.

If using DX 12 for PC makes it harder and more expensive to make a PS4 version than if you use DX11 then there is a very good reason not to use DX12 for PC if you are in effect having to give up a 20 million and growing install base. Even though PC + Xb one = a bigger install base you are still not going to sell more games on just those 2 platforms than if you are able to release on all 3 platforms. And if you can make awesome looking and perfroming games for PC with DX11 then why not stick with DX11 if it's going to give you much easier access to the PS4 install base?



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

DakonBlackblade on 19 March 2015
shikamaru317 said:
Azerth said:
so put the game out on two maybe three platforms using dx12 since its supposed to be easy to port crom pc to xbox. then work on the ps4 version while making money

You have a point. Ultimately the combined userbase of PC and Xbox One is larger than PS4, and porting between PC and Xbox One using DX12 is reportedly very easy (I believe a dev recently said it only took a few days). Seems to me like it would be a better idea for smaller devs who can't afford to develop a seperate PS4 version before launch, to develop for PC and Xbox One first, then a PS4 version later while the PC and Xbox One versions are earning money, than it would be to hold back both PC and Xbox One gamers by sticking with DX11.


Ye sure it makes sense to ignore the plataform with the bigest instal base and the easiest/cheapest to develop API to focus os a more expensive development cycle on the plataform that is not leading the market.

 

ethomaz said:
lol you can develop for PC + PS4 without DX12... ops you can even add Xbone together.

The replies to me makes no sense.

 

And we have a winner, someone who understands exactly what will happen. Exclusive XOnes games will use DX 12, multiplats will only do so if they can aford the extra money for a specific XOne build, otherwise theyre gona go with DX 11 and reduce the development budget.



WolfpackN64 on 19 March 2015

They still can use Vulkan.



Namiirei on 19 March 2015

This article is utterly stupid.

I don't really have anything else to say, others members already said enough.



Around the Network
Machiavellian on 19 March 2015
binary solo said:
walsufnir said:


But you can't develop for ps4 and pc with the same sdk.

And you can also put a finger in your nose to reach your eye and see if there is dirt under your nail but people don't do that because there is a better way to do so. 

There is just no reason to not use dx12 on pc and suggesting otherwise is definitely not making any sense.

If using DX 12 for PC makes it harder and more expensive to make a PS4 version than if you use DX11 then there is a very good reason not to use DX12 for PC if you are in effect having to give up a 20 million and growing install base. Even though PC + Xb one = a bigger install base you are still not going to sell more games on just those 2 platforms than if you are able to release on all 3 platforms. And if you can make awesome looking and perfroming games for PC with DX11 then why not stick with DX11 if it's going to give you much easier access to the PS4 install base?

The point is that DX12 does give a significant advantage for developer working on PC games.  Why would you not use the API if the adoption rate is high.  Exactly how many developers are going from  PC to PS4 instead of PS4 to PC?  If anything if you are going PS4 to PC, then you already have a lot of work on your hand porting to the PC using DX11. 

When all is said and done if DX12 makes development for 2 platforms as easy as was stated at GDC, then a lot of developers probably will go that route.  From my understanding and the information I have read, Most PS4 developer are either using GNM or even the more lower level API for the PS4 any way so none of that really translate over to DX11.  Why waste your time using an outdated API when DX12 has proven to deliver the goods. It also seems that MS is really pushing the API to the tools makers, publishers and game developers.  By the time Win10 and the API release, game engine and tool OEMs will have enough time to make the changes they need to support the API thus making the transistion to DX12 and adoption high.

There definitely will be developers who will stick with what they know but then again those developers usually do not have time to really make anything significant anyway (of course thats my opinion).

As with anything, if MS is smart, they will definitely have some big name developers bring out games that shows the power of the API when Win10 release.  Those type of games will be the proof for developers to switch over and thus increase adoption rate for the API.  I know I am thinking of upgrading my PC this year and cast my games to my TV.



method114 on 19 March 2015
ethomaz said:

walsufnir said:

But you can't develop for ps4 and pc with the same sdk.

And you can also put a finger in your nose to reach your eye and see if there is dirt under your nail but people don't do that because there is a better way to do so.

There is just no reason to not use dx12 on pc and suggesting otherwise is definitely not making any sense.

Of course you can.

That what all developers do... even the first-party ones lol.

Do you ever used a console SDK? It is a PC SDK that compiles after to console... you develop to PC and test it on PC... that is why this guy is talking bullshit.


Ok isn't this guy talking about future development? What your referring to is the way it's done right now. Maybe he's talking about when dx12 actually comes out? I don't know just asking questions.



Protendo on 19 March 2015

This article is perplexing. Xbox One has a more to the code API that is being rushly ported to the PS4 as it is. The only downside is these rush ports lack AF as a result, and are using Direct X emulation on PS4. That's only for multiplats that don't fully utilize the system. The ones that do are coding to the medal as it is, which Direct X 12 would lead to a performance loss when compared to coding to the medal. I can see many developers focusing there efforts on the PS4, then quickly porting to DX12 for Xbox One and PC. This makes the most sense financially and will could actually see this hurting the Xbox One in the long run.



How are the next-gen consoles trending on social media?  Why are they popular? Join Social Media Monthly to find out what everyone is talking about!

"And everyone's Kickstarter has merit." - Malory Archer 

jennryan3190 on 19 March 2015

I think people keep forgetting that the Warframe dev said porting their pc game to ps4 was super quick and easy.

So why would a dev choose to make a pc game and port it to xbox one and wait to make the ps4 version? If they had to choose a console they would prob just choose the pc and ps4 and wait to build the xbox one version. There are far more ps4s out in the wild.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/05/warframe-dev-praises-developer-friendly-ps4-tech-dualshock-4-best-console-controller-yet/

"“We had, probably, a 30-second conversation about if we should do it, “Sinclair added, and then, “[Sony] squeezed themselves to send us as many dev kits as possible and three months later we were on the [E3] show floor at PlayStation 4 showing Warframe playable.”

The speed with which Digital Extremes brought Warframe to PS4 in a playable state for E3 speaks volumes about how closely akin the PS4 architecture is to PC systems. I asked Sinclair to describe just how closely matched both platforms are in reality."



walsufnir on 20 March 2015
ethomaz said:

walsufnir said:

But you can't develop for ps4 and pc with the same sdk.

And you can also put a finger in your nose to reach your eye and see if there is dirt under your nail but people don't do that because there is a better way to do so.

There is just no reason to not use dx12 on pc and suggesting otherwise is definitely not making any sense.

Of course you can.

That what all developers do... even the first-party ones lol.

Do you ever used a console SDK? It is a PC SDK that compiles after to console... you develop to PC and test it on PC... that is why this guy is talking bullshit.


Uh, ethomaz... You confuse sdk with ide. You cannot build a pc game with the ps4 sdk. But you can use visual studio for both.