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Forums - Gaming Discussion - DX12 Adoption For Xbox One Is A Risk For Large Scale Production, Cross Support With PS4 Is A Factor

Lortsamler said:
walsufnir said:
Lortsamler said:
Why do everyone belive that Direct 3D is so much better than OpenGL? This is not the case at all. For example,OpenGL had tesselation 3 years ahead of Direct 3D,and it also had faster drawcalls than D3D. OpenGL also had a equivalent feature to tiled resources since OpenGL 4.2. What D3D got is better optimised drivers than OpenGL got,but this is on PC,and not the case on PS4. Vulkan however is built around Mantle,and to be honest,i don't know to much about Mantle yet,but my guess is that it's atleast on par with the latest OpenGL api.


Who said that in this thread? Also let's not pretend ogl doesn't have its own issues...

It's not specific to this thread,it's what people usually belive. And i already mentioned some of the issues ogl got. Anyway what this developer in this interview claim is a non issue really. Developers is used to work with multiple api's already,and most game engines today are made for both major api's.


Well, you more blamed the drivers. But this is not an issue that is inherent to ogl but to nvidia, amd and Intel. But it also has issues on its own. Google



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That's a real bummer.



It is bullshit because there are a lot of middleware and tools to works with both.

But lets guess it is true:

Develop DX12: small userbase
Develop PS4 = big userbase

If I was a developer who I will choose? It is a hard decision lol



ethomaz said:
It is bullshit because there are a lot of middleware and tools to works with both.

But lets guess it is true:

Develop DX12: small userbase
Develop PS4 = big userbase

If I was a developer who I will choose? It is a hard decision lol


And if I was a developer I wouldn't say DX12 has a small userbase and would perhaps make a different assumption lol



ethomaz said:
It is bullshit because there are a lot of middleware and tools to works with both.

But lets guess it is true:

Develop DX12: small userbase
Develop PS4 = big userbase

If I was a developer who I will choose? It is a hard decision lol


The amount of NEW PCs sold in one month is more then then PS4 has sold in almost 2 years (290 million sold last year)..   Even the "slowed" sales of PCs .. Yes not all of them are "pc gaming" PCs.. but either way..  well more then 100 million PCs out there will benefit from DX12..     The USERBASE for DX12 is at minumum 5 times greater then PS4..   Steam itself has over 100 million users..  and that doesn't represent every gamer in the world..   so. yeah..  Windows 10 being a free upgrade will help adoption and support for DX12 even more..    

PS4 = Small Userbase

DX12 = Massive worldwide userbase.. 



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cpg716 said:
ethomaz said:
It is bullshit because there are a lot of middleware and tools to works with both.

But lets guess it is true:

Develop DX12: small userbase
Develop PS4 = big userbase

If I was a developer who I will choose? It is a hard decision lol


The amount of NEW PCs sold in one month then PS4 has sold in almost 2 years (290 million sold last year)..   Even the "slowed" sales of PCs .. Yes not all of them are "pc gaming" PCs.. but either way..  well more then 100 million PCs out there will benefit from DX12..     The USERBASE for DX12 is at minumum 5 times greater then PS4..   Steam itself has over 100 million users..  and that doesn't represent every gamer in the world..   so. yeah..   

PS4 = Small Userbase

DX12 = Massive worldwide userbase.. 

Yeah, but just to compare relative sales of many cross platform games (let's use the latest CoD as an example), the PS4 outsells the the PC and XB1 combined. Probably because of competition with established PC titles that can't be converted to console like LOL/WoW/etc and the fact that many PC gamers see criss platform games as watered down the way many console gamers see mobile games.

And that gap will only grow.



cpg716 said:
ethomaz said:
It is bullshit because there are a lot of middleware and tools to works with both.

But lets guess it is true:

Develop DX12: small userbase
Develop PS4 = big userbase

If I was a developer who I will choose? It is a hard decision lol


The amount of NEW PCs sold in one month is more then then PS4 has sold in almost 2 years (290 million sold last year)..   Even the "slowed" sales of PCs .. Yes not all of them are "pc gaming" PCs.. but either way..  well more then 100 million PCs out there will benefit from DX12..     The USERBASE for DX12 is at minumum 5 times greater then PS4..   Steam itself has over 100 million users..  and that doesn't represent every gamer in the world..   so. yeah..  Windows 10 being a free upgrade will help adoption and support for DX12 even more..    

PS4 = Small Userbase

DX12 = Massive worldwide userbase.. 

So this means the PS4 Versions of games outsells the PC+XB1 Version with a community of "gamers" which is 100+ Million

This just makes the PS4 even better
They can develop for 1 system and make the same sales probably without addition problems to develop for other systems.


What i want to say
The 100+ Million active userbase of steam or PC in general if we add Blizzard and so on doesn't mean shit if the people there don't buy anything

Yeah sure 4+ Million people or so log in daily to play Dota2 or League of Legends
But oh...Even CoD sells like shit on PC.If the most mainstream game of all time can't sell there why should others put the DX12PC over the PS4 aka where the games sell?
This just means Steam/PC and their userbase is sad to look at - No one seems to care for most games but MOBAs,WoW+Blizzard Games and other stuff.
I mean they are happy on PC to sell 500k-1 Million Units of certain games while the console versions easily go into the multiple million figures.

And the PS4 Version of Witcher 3 will outsell the 2 other versions combined.
So there are actually 100+ Million Steam Users...Man CDPR will have at least 90 Million sold units alone on Steam right?No they won't - They can be happy if they reach a Million on there which is just laughable.Especially BEFORE Steamsales where you get Witcher 3 for 5$
For full price it will probably sell even less and not even close to what the PS4 Version will do.



lol you can develop for PC + PS4 without DX12... ops you can even add Xbone together.

The replies to me makes no sense.



ethomaz said:
lol you can develop for PC + PS4 without DX12... ops you can even add Xbone together.

The replies to me makes no sense.


But you can't develop for ps4 and pc with the same sdk.

And you can also put a finger in your nose to reach your eye and see if there is dirt under your nail but people don't do that because there is a better way to do so. 

There is just no reason to not use dx12 on pc and suggesting otherwise is definitely not making any sense.



Zekkyou said:
shikamaru317 said:

There's nothing stopping devs from having a DX12 build of a game for PC and Xbox One, and a separate build for PS4 that uses it's graphics API. Of course there's risk because having a seperate PS4 build adds to a game's budget, but there's also the risk of Xbox One users ignoring your game if you don't support DirectX 12. People want the most out of their console, ignoring that is a mistake imo. AAA devs ultimately can afford seperate PC/Xbox One and PS4 builds, I only see this being an issue for the smaller indie devs, and most indie games don't have good enough graphics to need DX12 on Xbox One anyway.

I doubt there's any real risk of that happening. It's true that people like to see their console being fully utilized (and will moan when it isn't), but developers frequently ignoring the PS4's hardware advantage over the X1 doesn't seem to have had any major effect on game sales. I don't see how DX12 would either. Doubly so since its effect on the X1 is likely to be modest at most.

Yeah, that kind of statement is nothing but FUD. Not using DX12 is not what would hold Xb one back in relation to PC, it's the raw power difference that does that. The only think Xbone owners want is reasonable parity with PS4 versions of games. So provided developers give them that the Xb one gamers will buy the game regardless of the graphics engine that is used. The issue will arise if / when there starts to be a noticable performance gap between PS4 and Xb one for the same game. But the question will be whether switching to DX12 will help with performance parity. MS has gone on record saying the DX12 performance boost was always only ever claimed for PC and that any improvement with Xb one will be relatively minor. If that's the case then why would you adopt a graphics engine that doesn;t give you much more from the Xb one but makes life harder for developing console multiplats?

Are we basically going to see MS force developers to adopt DX12 if they want to release games for W10 PCs? In which case they then force developers to adopt DX12 for Xb one without, apparently, all that much benefit for Xb one itself aside from the fact it makes it harder for a developer to make the game for PS4. So in essence MS is looking to force developers down a path that does not benefit them, because they will lose PS4 revenue, which being the majorly dominant console means they will lose the majority of the potential console revenue? 

Nice move MS, really supportive of developers giving them no choice but to have to forego revenue potential without having to spend a single dollar to buy exclusivity. Don't use DX12 and you miss out on the PC market, use DX12 and miss out on PS4 market, go PS4 exclusive. It's a losing prospect for any developer who isn't getting financial aid from MS or Sony. Hence this is bad for gaming.



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