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Forums - Gaming Discussion - DX12 Adoption For Xbox One Is A Risk For Large Scale Production, Cross Support With PS4 Is A Factor

Ruler on 19 March 2015
shikamaru317 said:
Azerth said:
so put the game out on two maybe three platforms using dx12 since its supposed to be easy to port crom pc to xbox. then work on the ps4 version while making money

You have a point. Ultimately the combined userbase of PC and Xbox One is larger than PS4, and porting between PC and Xbox One using DX12 is reportedly very easy (I believe a dev recently said it only took a few days). Seems to me like it would be a better idea for smaller devs who can't afford to develop a seperate PS4 version before launch, to develop for PC and Xbox One first, then a PS4 version later while the PC and Xbox One versions are earning money, than it would be to hold back both PC and Xbox One gamers by sticking with DX11.

PC versions dont make that much money at launch and xbox user install base is smaller than ps4. The ps4 makes more money probably and in the end it has to come out on linux and mac who use openGL like PS4



Why i left PC gaming

 

(2015) Question for PS4 owners: if the situation would be reverse? would you still play on PS4?

(2015) The "I don't care PS4 is the most powerful console" thread

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true_fan on 19 March 2015
Zekkyou said:
true_fan said:

It's more of a sarcastic truth. Parity is about one version getting held back and not getting the best possible game.

Is the bolded part sarcastic too? Because i'd actually (mostly) agree with that statement, which is why i can sympathize with PS4 owners that get upset about it. At least i can with those that don't then credit it to some kind of conspiracy :p

 

I believe developers should give both version the same amount of attention, even if it means one ends up being 'better'. Within reason, anyway.

No sarcasm in that statement, that is what I believe parity is all about. Focus on each consoles strangth which I belive has been the focus for most devs so far this gen.



Hynad on 19 March 2015

I don't see how it is different from what it is currently.

PS4 already doesn't use Direct X. -__-



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 19 March 2015

I m pretty sure x1 uses direct x anyway so I doubt it would be affected very much



                  

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Zekkyou on 19 March 2015
vivster said:
Can someone shed some light on this? I thought developers are already dealing with 2 different APIs for both consoles. Are they so similar that it is easy to port or is DX12 just so extremely different und impossible to port?

I'm curious too... Unless DX12 (for whatever bizarre reason) makes porting near impossible, this statement doesn't make much sense. It just making things more difficult shouldn't be a major issue for a 'large scale production'.

We need to get Tachikoma in here :p



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Machiavellian on 19 March 2015
torok said:
That's utter nonsense. Last gen, devs had to create versions that were pretty different for PC, X360 and PS3 (more in the last, of course). In the previous gen, things were even worse. Porting is even easier between PS4/X1/PC thanks to their mature API.

And of course, with most games relying on Unreal, CryEngine and other multiplatform development solutions, this is even more ridiculous.

Throw Unity into the mix and I am really having a hard time understanding what the heck this dev is talking about.  With MS pretty much giving away WIn 10, the barrrier betweeen people having DX12 will be much smaller than when DX11 released.  All major middleware will support DX12 making development easier for PC and X1 multiplatform developers.



torok on 19 March 2015
Machiavellian said:

Throw Unity into the mix and I am really having a hard time understanding what the heck this dev is talking about.  With MS pretty much giving away WIn 10, the barrrier betweeen people having DX12 will be much smaller than when DX11 released.  All major middleware will support DX12 making development easier for PC and X1 multiplatform developers.


Exactly. Unity just makes this ridiculous, we have games that are on mobile, Vita, PS4/3, X1, 360 and PC at the same time.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

Lortsamler on 19 March 2015

Why do everyone belive that Direct 3D is so much better than OpenGL? This is not the case at all. For example,OpenGL had tesselation 3 years ahead of Direct 3D,and it also had faster drawcalls than D3D. OpenGL also had a equivalent feature to tiled resources since OpenGL 4.2. What D3D got is better optimised drivers than OpenGL got,but this is on PC,and not the case on PS4. Vulkan however is built around Mantle,and to be honest,i don't know to much about Mantle yet,but my guess is that it's atleast on par with the latest OpenGL api.



teigaga on 19 March 2015

people doing the most as always lol

I'd say a few things:

1. Some devs actually care about a performance and are very willing to pour that tiny bit more into a games budget to achieve this better performance, I mean just look at how many delays have we seen already this gen. Surely some devs won't and its not a big deal, either way "risk" seems to heavy of a word to use in whether people support DX12 or not.

2.If they're utilising DX12 on PC, I imagine they'd do the same for X1?

3. The Xbox One is not the OG Xbox and PS4 is not the PS2. No western publishers are dropping support from X1 whilst they're games are selling millions on the systems (most big devs). The X1 sold 11m in 14months, we need to stop acting likes its the Wii U/Vita.



walsufnir on 19 March 2015
torok said:
shikamaru317 said:

There's nothing stopping devs from having a DX12 build of a game for PC and Xbox One, and a separate build for PS4 that uses it's graphics API. Of course there's risk because having a seperate PS4 build adds to a game's budget, but there's also the risk of Xbox One users ignoring your game if you don't support DirectX 12. People want the most out of their console, ignoring that is a mistake imo. AAA devs and most AA devs ultimately can afford seperate PC/Xbox One and PS4 builds, I only see this being an issue for the smaller indie devs, and most indie games don't have good enough graphics to need DX12's benefits on Xbox One anyway.


99% of the users don't even know how the game was made and simply don't care. If visuals were that important, everybody would be gaming on PCs with Titans and CoD wouldn't sell 20M.

Despite that, DX12 brings almost none performance improvements for X1. The new API tries to remove mainly the draw call limit on PC graphics and optimize the use of CPUs, like Mantle. None of these improvements will help X1, because it already has a "close to the metal" API and isn't suffering with ny of these issues.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-metro-redux-what-its-really-like-to-make-a-multi-platform-game


"Digital Foundry: DirectX 11 vs GNMX vs GNM - what's your take on the strengths and weakness of the APIs available to developers with Xbox One and PlayStation 4? Closer to launch there were some complaints about XO driver performance and CPU overhead on GNMX.

Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result."