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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Shin’en Multimedia: Wii U Is Most Definitely A Next-Generation Console

Hynad said:
Nem said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
Nem said:
Been saying this for a year now. No one listens.

Now that the xbox one is revealed and all stats known, do people still think that its the leap they thought it was? Its only a difference of texture detail and frame-rate. To the naked eye, the difference isnt much.


Not at all. Everyone who says such a thing simply has not seen what modern engines are capable of.


Of course. I'd like to see more examples and less faith leaping.

You mean... Like seeing something Shin'en have done for the Wii U that actually support their claims?

Nano Assault Neo.



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curl-6 said:
Hynad said:
Nem said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
Nem said:
Been saying this for a year now. No one listens.

Now that the xbox one is revealed and all stats known, do people still think that its the leap they thought it was? Its only a difference of texture detail and frame-rate. To the naked eye, the difference isnt much.


Not at all. Everyone who says such a thing simply has not seen what modern engines are capable of.


Of course. I'd like to see more examples and less faith leaping.

You mean... Like seeing something Shin'en have done for the Wii U that actually support their claims?

Nano Assault Neo.

That game certainly doesn't show the superiority of the Wii U compared to the HD twins. -__-



i believe it is good for nintendo that sony asked developers to try to make games in 1080p and 60fps. that will cost a lot of resources and is something the average gamer doesn't care too much about. i think 1080p is something most people won't care about since most have a too big viewing distance for their tv size to see a big difference.

if nintendo developer will make games in 720p and 30fps if 60fps is not really needed, the games will look closer to each other for the average gamer as if sony would have asked for 720p and 30fps in most games.



crissindahouse said:
i believe it is good for nintendo that sony asked developers to try to make games in 1080p and 60fps. that will cost a lot of resources and is something the average gamer doesn't care too much about. i think 1080p is something most people won't care about since most have a too big viewing distance for the size their tv has to see a big difference.

if nintendo developer will make games in 720p and 30fps if 60fps is not really needed, the games will look closer to each other for the average gamer as if sony would have asked for 720p and 30fps in most games.

I think most games will run in 1080p at 30 fps on PS4, meaning that in theory using the exact same image quality it would have to run on 720p at 30 fps on the Xbox One.



curl-6 said:
Hynad said:

You mean... Like seeing something Shin'en have done for the Wii U that actually support their claims?

Nano Assault Neo.

That game is hardly a graphical showcase for the console. It's barely pushing the envelope.



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z101 said:
The power difference between PS4 and Wii U is not that significant. Of course the PS4 will produce better graphics, but the Wii U is capable of toned down versions easily.

Only very physics heavy games could be hard to reproduce on Wii U.

But there is also the other way round: Wii U with its unique hardware design and fast connection of CPU/GPU and eDRAM could some things easily that would take an enormous amount of cpu/gpu power on PS4.


How toned down exactly are you talking about?

Keep in mind that the PS4 will have a ram advantage of x7 meaning that 6GB of game data will have to be toned down to make it work on the WiiU's 1GB of ram. it could be the difference between seeing a very sharp, clean, varied & detailed 1080p image, versus a potentially blurry, undetailed, bland 720p image, when comparing the image quality. It's not to say that the WiiU won't produce great graphics, rather that the PS4 will produce even greater graphics.

On the second part, you do realise that the PS4 has the same setup but it's intergrated into a single chip, plus both the CPU and GPU have access to 8GB of high bandwidth ram making EDram a non-requirment, so what ever benifit you attribute to Nintendo setup can also be attributed to Sony's set up, with Sony having the better setup because it makes it that much easier for developers who only need to worry about 1 pool of fast ram versus 2 (1 slow, 1 fast).



crissindahouse said:

i believe it is good for nintendo that sony asked developers to try to make games in 1080p and 60fps. that will cost a lot of resources and is something the average gamer doesn't care too much about. i think 1080p is something most people won't care about since most have a too big viewing distance for their tv size to see a big difference.

if nintendo developer will make games in 720p and 30fps if 60fps is not really needed, the games will look closer to each other for the average gamer as if sony would have asked for 720p and 30fps in most games.


Nope, just a couple of things to note, it's a known fact that TV's have terrible scalars, especially the LCD/LED TV's, which are also the most common, so going with your hypothetical of an equal looking game a 1080p Image will look that much greater than a 720p image on a 1080p TV....but let’s say people have a 720p TV, Sure the 720p will look great, but now the 1080p which is being downscaled to 720p will look even greater, it in effect has received free AA (SSAA to be precise).

Let’s face it though, your hypothetical is only true if games were to be created on the WiiU and then up ported, however, the fact is, games are being made first and foremost on the more powerful hardware, which not only has more ram, but more GPU and GPGPU grunt, so games will look that much more detailed, have better AA, have better lighting, have better shadows, have more particle effects, have more physics, have more varied textures, have larger more detailed environments all while running at 1080p.

Games like watchdogs will be our first glimpse into the differences and I cannot wait for Lens of truth and Digital foundry to do their analysis for all to see, till then we can only wait till the end of the year, best year for the gamers of the world.



VGKing said:
Power allows for more than just better graphics. We always need more power. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't be getting more and more powerful smarthphones every year, we would just get new software. We get both though, because both are equally important to that "next-gen" experience.

I agree that power allows for more than just better graphics. As we can see in most PC-games, some graphicsl settings allow the same game to run over a broad variety of machines. That's why it is not right to say, game X couldn't run on WiiU, because of the graphics. It would probably don't look that good on WiiU, but it should be scalable.

Something completely different is number of independent working units in a strategy game for example. If XBone can run 1000 of this, than it cannot be easily scaled, because if WiiU only supports 200 working units the game wouldn't be the same anymore. Same with physics or AI. We need to see how games make use of such features.



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I guess we have to wait and see but I definitly expect a big leap in visuals from the next gen consoles. Do ps3/ 360 games already look great? Yes they did, untill I hooked up my pc to a tv. From then on out my eyes hurt when I see 720p games. The big difference with current gen will probably be the scale though with much larger open levels filled with detail.



jake_the_fake1 said:

On the second part, you do realise that the PS4 has the same setup but it's intergrated into a single chip, plus both the CPU and GPU have access to 8GB of high bandwidth ram making EDram a non-requirment,


The Wii U eDRAM bandwith is much faster than normal RAM the PS4 uses. Interesting statement from the lead system architect from the PS4: 

For example, if we use eDRAM (on-chip DRAM) for the main memory in addition to the external memory, the memory bandwidth will be several terabytes per second. It will be a big advance in terms of performance.

He even explain why the PS4 don't use eDRAM:

However, in that case, we will make developers solve a puzzle, 'To realize the fastest operation, what data should be stored in which of the memories, the low-capacity eDRAM or the high-capacity external memory?' We wanted to avoid such a situation. We put the highest priority on allowing developers to spend their time creating values for their games.

Sony don't use eDRAM because they wanted to make console that is very easy to handle even for dumb programmers so they sacrifice performance for easy programming, the other reason is that eDRAM is very expensive.

Source: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20130401/274313/?P=2