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Forums - General Discussion - ESPN journalist Chris Broussard on NBA's Jason Collins: Homosexuality is a sin and living in sin isn't Christian

Wright said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Wright said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Wright said:
I've always wondered. Does the Bible says especifically that Homosexuality is a sin? Whenever I engage in a discussion about homosexuality with a Christian they always com to me with the Gomorra and Sodoma. And in that part there's nothing that says so; it's just that people there were very pervert and tried to take advantage of the angels visiting the city

There are 6 passages that refrence homosexuals.
Genesis 19:1–11, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, Romans 1:26–27, I Corinthians 6:9 and I Timothy 1:10

I don't know exactly what they say but most people point to Leviticus I think. As for Sodom and Gomorrah, that's in Genesis and I don't think that was the main reason for the destruction of the cities. There was more to it than just homosexuality. Also, I guess the citizens were raping people and it was a mutual relationship between two people.


Thanks. I shall look into 'em and see what I can make out of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4e0qP4vvk


Geez. I'll have to check this with time.

I honestly think he might be stretching the scriptures to fit what he wanted to find. He basically says you can be gay (and sinless as a christian) because God condemns the permiscuous lifestyle and not a loving consentual relationship.



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NintendoPie said:
As a Christian this made me gag.
Although, this isn't really a horrible thing to think this way like some people paint it to be. It's not like he wants to kill the man for being gay, it's not like he wants to throw the guy in a zoo for being gay, etc. He just disagrees with what the guy has chosen. I know it may seem absurd to many people on VGC, but don't try to paint it out as some horrible thing that means what it doesn't.

Still, it's funny to see a Sports Station actually discussing something other than sports and failing at it.

Your ignorance is showing.  Did you choose to be heterosexual, you know, since sexuality seems to be a choice, in your head.  No, you've just always liked girls and you never had to make a choice, right?  Well homosexual people didn't make a choice either, they have always been attracted to their own gender.  Try be a little more understanding of others.



Cirio said:
Why is this the only point of view being posted here? What about all of the positive support he got from players, coaches, the commissioner and even other christians?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kobe-bryant-bill-clinton-david-stern-others-support-163319934.html

Golden State Warriors coach Mark Jackson: "As a Christian man, I have beliefs of what's right and what's wrong. That being said, I know Jason Collins, I know his family and I'm certainly praying for them at this time."

People have different views. At least the ESPN journalist is staying true to his beliefs and isn't some typical "I'll be Christian when I feel like it" American. In fact, the overwhelming amount of support Jason's gotten is astounding and should be what we focus our discussion on, because this is clearly illustrating a positive shift in the culture of America.

I applaud all the positive reactions to his coming out. But the negative side shouldn't just ignored, we should be able to share our opinion about Broussard.



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chris_wing said:

Your ignorance is showing.  Did you choose to be heterosexual, you know, since sexuality seems to be a choice, in your head.  No, you've just always liked girls and you never had to make a choice, right?  Well homosexual people didn't make a choice either, they have always been attracted to their own gender.  Try be a little more understanding of others.

Don't try to judge me off of that post. Because you are completely wrong about me.

When did I state that gays made a choice to be gay? When did it look like I was trying to be ignorant? Seriously, just stop. Someone tried to define me before and they also were very wrong.



chris_wing said:
Leviticus 19:28 "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."
Are people who have tattoos allowed in the bible club? Are they chastised, driven from the church, called sinners who will burn in hell for their lifestyles? Of course not, but why are homosexuals? People who get tattoos are making a conscious decision to defy the lord against clear words in the bible. Homosexuals are created different, they are following their nature and don't have the luxury of choice as people who mark their bodies clearly do.
So why do Christian fundamentalists condemn homosexuals who didn't choose to be gay but look the other way when people show up to church with tattoos & other body modifications like piercings that they clearly choose to have? It seems like a double standard that is driven by ignorance & hate.

It's not that simple.

The significance and weight of a certain Bible passage depends on several factors (what's the context? who delivered the passage? who was the recipient? Is it mentioned elsewhere? is it to be taken literal or figurative? is there "a moral of the story"? how does it apply to a modern setting? etc etc).

Long story short, in christian apologetics homosexuality is given a totally different weight compared to some obscure commands given to the Israelites at a specific time in history.



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Mnementh said:
Kantor said:
And perhaps it is a sin, in his interpretation of the Bible.

The problem only really starts when he uses that interpretation of the Bible to try to control other people, rather than just expressing his opinion. Yes, he probably does some stuff that others would consider sinful as well.

Religious opinion only becomes a problem when it has state power behind it.

Or mob power. Or society pressure. Or employers.

The state isn't the only instance that has the power to restrict freedom.

True.

However, Broussard has none of those things.



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NintendoPie said:
chris_wing said:

Your ignorance is showing.  Did you choose to be heterosexual, you know, since sexuality seems to be a choice, in your head.  No, you've just always liked girls and you never had to make a choice, right?  Well homosexual people didn't make a choice either, they have always been attracted to their own gender.  Try be a little more understanding of others.

Don't try to judge me off of that post. Because you are completely wrong about me.

When did I state that gays made a choice to be gay? When did it look like I was trying to be ignorant. Seriously, stop. Someone tried to define me before and they also were very wrong.

So you didn't write this, "He just disagrees with what the guy has chosen.".  You state that he (ESPN guy) disagrees with his (NBA guys) choice, but there was no choice to be made.  That is the bit of ignorrance I thought I clearly explained.  You can be as accepting as you want, but you also need to understand people or the acceptence is superficial.



pezus said:

This is true. To be honest I was surprised that this hadn't been discussed already on here. I thought most were already aware of him coming out and therefore decided to focus this thread on this ESPN guy.

I think criticizing public opinions can be very healthy, otherwise when will people know when their opinions go too far?

I agree, criticizm is never wrong (if done correctly). But this guys opinion is not going too far, and he is not bashing homosexuals or acting through bigotry like many conservative folks do. This is what's being posted everywhere:

"... Personally, I don't believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle or an openly premarital sex between heterosexuals, if you're openly living that type of lifestyle, then the Bible says you know them by their fruits, it says that's a sin. If you're openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, adultery, fornication, premarital sex between heterosexuals, whatever it may be, I believe that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I do not think the Bible would characterize them as a Christian."

But look at the rest of the quote (which conveniently is left out of most articles):

"I'm a Christian. I don't agree with homosexuality. I think it's a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is. [ESPN's] L.Z. [Granderson] knows that. He and I have played on basketball teams together for several years. We've gone out, had lunch together, we've had good conversations, good laughs together. He knows where I stand and I know where he stands. I don't criticize him, he doesn't criticize me, and call me a bigot, call me ignorant, call me intolerant.

"In talking to some people around the league, there's a lot Christians in the NBA and just because they disagree with that lifestyle, they don't want to be called bigoted and intolerant and things like that. That's what LZ was getting at. Just like I may tolerate someone whose lifestyle I disagree with, he can tolerate my beliefs. He disagrees with my beliefs and my lifestyle but true tolerance and acceptance is being able to handle that as mature adults and not criticize each other and call each other names."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/espn-chris-broussard-clarifies-views-jason-collins-don-221941033.html

 As you can see, his opinion is not going "too far". He is actually staying true to his beliefs (notice how he also mentions pre-martial sex) and sharing his opinion as a true Christian. I think this is clearly opposite from "bigotry" or from those typical religious folks who clearly bash and harrass homosexuals. Of course we all have different opinions; I personally disagree with this guy's stance on homosexuality. But at least he is providing his point in an efficient, mature manner without being hateful. I think his view should be just as valid as the views of people who support Jason.



Kantor said:
Mnementh said:
Kantor said:
And perhaps it is a sin, in his interpretation of the Bible.

The problem only really starts when he uses that interpretation of the Bible to try to control other people, rather than just expressing his opinion. Yes, he probably does some stuff that others would consider sinful as well.

Religious opinion only becomes a problem when it has state power behind it.

Or mob power. Or society pressure. Or employers.

The state isn't the only instance that has the power to restrict freedom.

True.

However, Broussard has none of those things.

Hmm, he may as a part of media has influence on society pressure. But in general yes, he alone has not much power.



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chris_wing said:

So you didn't write this, "He just disagrees with what the guy has chosen.".  You state that he (ESPN guy) disagrees with his (NBA guys) choice, but there was no choice to be made.  That is the bit of ignorrance I thought I clearly explained.  You can be as accepting as you want, but you also need to understand people or the acceptence is superficial.

Oh yeah, disregard that. Poor wording on my part. I just thought that if you read my whole post you would've known that I wasn't being ignorant about the topic. (That's why I put that this video made me gag, in the beginning of my post.)