Quantcast
Doom, Doom II, and Doom 3 now available for Switch, PS4, and Xbox One; Doom and Doom II for smartphones

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Doom, Doom II, and Doom 3 now available for Switch, PS4, and Xbox One; Doom and Doom II for smartphones

KManX89 said:

Seriously, what's gotten into Bethesda? They've pissed away their reputation overnight with so many fuck-ups, first releasing a broken, buggy, half-baked Fallout 76, then scamming people with falsely-advertised duffel bags, then leaking people's credit card and personal info when ordering said duffel bags, then releasing a half-baked 10 hour Wolfenstein game laden with microtransactions, and now this.

And what's sad is: some people actually believe them when they said they accidentally coded in login requirements and DRM for a 26-year-old game that they didn't even make and deleted the backwards-compatibility 360 versions of classic Doom games from people's libraries after getting caught with their pants down YET AGAIN.

Yeah, no, like I said, that shit doesn't get coded in by accident, anyone who knows how programming works knows this. The fact that it appears on the game's store pages proves it was intentional. Then even hid it at the bottom of the PSN page, thinking nobody would see it, sounds pretty deliberate (not to mention underhanded) to me.

They're turning into EA/Acti. I guess that makes sense, after all, you can't spell Bethesda without EA. 

And on that note.

More like EA and Activision saying: No one can be worse than us

Konami: Hold my sake

Konami manages to beat them Pachinko-Style!

Bethesda: This is nothing. Hold my Nuka-Cola.

As if they would all be happy to be voted worst company...

episteme said:
So apparently Doom 1&2 have the wrong aspect ratio, inferior sound and music compared to the originals and run at 35 FPS like the originals that were made for 70 Hz monitors, but it's an issue for 60 Hz monitors/TVs.

The situation is better for Doom 3, the 4K consoles run at native 4k, PS4, XB1 and Switch at native 1080p, Switch handheld native 720p. All versions target 60 FPS while the Switch version seems to be the only one with drops (and handheld running better than docked). But it's better than the PS3 and 360 versions.

I'm a bit disappointed about 1&2 because they could have made a better job, but considering to get 3 if I feel like playing it on a handheld. Still replaying the original PC version every few years.

numberwang said:
episteme said:
So apparently Doom 1&2 have ...inferior sound and music compared to the originals

Really strange design choice to slow down the music for this remaster. 

Doom E1M1 on switch, way too slow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtfzZuHZoqs

Doom E1M1 on a range of software & hardware MIDI synths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IISnXltVz4A

Apparently, the first 2 games had been totally remade in Unity and couldn't reuse the old assets, including sound files. That's probably because the originals were programmed on NeXT computers, which were more comparable to MacIntoshs and Amigas of the time then to PCs (and it's OS was the base of MacOS), and none of the software used back then works on a PC or even Mac these days. So they had to completely remake them.

Why they choose to keep the 35FPS lock however is beyond me.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 03 August 2019

Around the Network
Bofferbrauer2 said:
KManX89 said:

Seriously, what's gotten into Bethesda? They've pissed away their reputation overnight with so many fuck-ups, first releasing a broken, buggy, half-baked Fallout 76, then scamming people with falsely-advertised duffel bags, then leaking people's credit card and personal info when ordering said duffel bags, then releasing a half-baked 10 hour Wolfenstein game laden with microtransactions, and now this.

And what's sad is: some people actually believe them when they said they accidentally coded in login requirements and DRM for a 26-year-old game that they didn't even make and deleted the backwards-compatibility 360 versions of classic Doom games from people's libraries after getting caught with their pants down YET AGAIN.

Yeah, no, like I said, that shit doesn't get coded in by accident, anyone who knows how programming works knows this. The fact that it appears on the game's store pages proves it was intentional. Then even hid it at the bottom of the PSN page, thinking nobody would see it, sounds pretty deliberate (not to mention underhanded) to me.

They're turning into EA/Acti. I guess that makes sense, after all, you can't spell Bethesda without EA. 

And on that note.

More like EA and Activision saying: No one can be worse than us

Konami: Hold my sake

Konami manages to beat them Pachinko-Style!

Bethesda: This is nothing. Hold my Nuka-Cola.

As if they would all be happy to be voted worst company...

episteme said:
So apparently Doom 1&2 have the wrong aspect ratio, inferior sound and music compared to the originals and run at 35 FPS like the originals that were made for 70 Hz monitors, but it's an issue for 60 Hz monitors/TVs.

The situation is better for Doom 3, the 4K consoles run at native 4k, PS4, XB1 and Switch at native 1080p, Switch handheld native 720p. All versions target 60 FPS while the Switch version seems to be the only one with drops (and handheld running better than docked). But it's better than the PS3 and 360 versions.

I'm a bit disappointed about 1&2 because they could have made a better job, but considering to get 3 if I feel like playing it on a handheld. Still replaying the original PC version every few years.

numberwang said:

Really strange design choice to slow down the music for this remaster. 

Doom E1M1 on switch, way too slow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtfzZuHZoqs

Doom E1M1 on a range of software & hardware MIDI synths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IISnXltVz4A

Apparently, the first 2 games had been totally remade in Unity and couldn't reuse the old assets, including sound files. That's probably because the originals were programmed on NeXT computers, which were more comparable to MacIntoshs and Amigas of the time then to PCs (and it's OS was the base of MacOS), and none of the software used back then works on a PC or even Mac these days. So they had to completely remake them.

Why they choose to keep the 35FPS lock however is beyond me.

Admittedly I'm no expert but surely these issues could have been corrected, I mean even if you can't use the original code, things like music playback being too slow or a borked aspect ratio can't be THAT hard to fix with all the wonders of modern technology?



curl-6 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

More like EA and Activision saying: No one can be worse than us

Konami: Hold my sake

Konami manages to beat them Pachinko-Style!

Bethesda: This is nothing. Hold my Nuka-Cola.

As if they would all be happy to be voted worst company...

Apparently, the first 2 games had been totally remade in Unity and couldn't reuse the old assets, including sound files. That's probably because the originals were programmed on NeXT computers, which were more comparable to MacIntoshs and Amigas of the time then to PCs (and it's OS was the base of MacOS), and none of the software used back then works on a PC or even Mac these days. So they had to completely remake them.

Why they choose to keep the 35FPS lock however is beyond me.

Admittedly I'm no expert but surely these issues could have been corrected, I mean even if you can't use the original code, things like music playback being too slow or a borked aspect ratio can't be THAT hard to fix with all the wonders of modern technology?

Well, consider this: With today's technology, it's impossible to build the Saturn V, the rocket used to go to the moon. Why? Simply because the machinery and production techniques have fallen out of use and the new ones can't do the stuff needed to build the rocket.

A similar thing is true with software, especially when it comes from long disused and not being backwards compatible from any modern hardware. You often have to restart from scratch, as nothing can be reused. Especially when the originals used some glitches to their profit. For instance, if the sound uses a glitch that can't be found on modern hardware, they would have to emulate the glitch. It's possible something like that is happening here, but I'm not sure.

If not, well, it's Bethesda. They produce Bugs with some game content all the time.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
curl-6 said:

Admittedly I'm no expert but surely these issues could have been corrected, I mean even if you can't use the original code, things like music playback being too slow or a borked aspect ratio can't be THAT hard to fix with all the wonders of modern technology?

Well, consider this: With today's technology, it's impossible to build the Saturn V, the rocket used to go to the moon. Why? Simply because the machinery and production techniques have fallen out of use and the new ones can't do the stuff needed to build the rocket.

A similar thing is true with software, especially when it comes from long disused and not being backwards compatible from any modern hardware. You often have to restart from scratch, as nothing can be reused. Especially when the originals used some glitches to their profit. For instance, if the sound uses a glitch that can't be found on modern hardware, they would have to emulate the glitch. It's possible something like that is happening here, but I'm not sure.

If not, well, it's Bethesda. They produce Bugs with some game content all the time.

But basic stuff like aspect ratio and sound playback speed, how hard can that be to fix? 



curl-6 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Well, consider this: With today's technology, it's impossible to build the Saturn V, the rocket used to go to the moon. Why? Simply because the machinery and production techniques have fallen out of use and the new ones can't do the stuff needed to build the rocket.

A similar thing is true with software, especially when it comes from long disused and not being backwards compatible from any modern hardware. You often have to restart from scratch, as nothing can be reused. Especially when the originals used some glitches to their profit. For instance, if the sound uses a glitch that can't be found on modern hardware, they would have to emulate the glitch. It's possible something like that is happening here, but I'm not sure.

If not, well, it's Bethesda. They produce Bugs with some game content all the time.

But basic stuff like aspect ratio and sound playback speed, how hard can that be to fix? 

Ridiculously easy. Not having access to the original code and remaking them in Unity actually makes it even easier.

As for the 35fps lock, that was clearly a design choice to be authentic to the original experience. But when almost everyone is playing on a 60hz display it's a misguided one. Ideally the game would be 60fps with an optional 30fps lock.



LTD Sales Predictions: PS4 - 130m, Switch - 110m, XBO - 52m
2019 Sales : PS4 - 15m, Switch - 18.8m, XBO - 4.8m
2020 Sales: Switch - 22m (Peak Year)

Around the Network
COKTOE said:
episteme said:
So apparently Doom 1&2 have the wrong aspect ratio, inferior sound and music compared to the originals and run at 35 FPS like the originals that were made for 70 Hz monitors, but it's an issue for 60 Hz monitors/TVs.

The situation is better for Doom 3, the 4K consoles run at native 4k, PS4, XB1 and Switch at native 1080p, Switch handheld native 720p. All versions target 60 FPS while the Switch version seems to be the only one with drops (and handheld running better than docked). But it's better than the PS3 and 360 versions.

I'm a bit disappointed about 1&2 because they could have made a better job, but considering to get 3 if I feel like playing it on a handheld. Still replaying the original PC version every few years.

Do you ( does anybody ) know if the prior versions of Doom 1 & 2 that were released on XBL and PSN suffer from these issues? These are the versions that were *accidentally delisted, but put back due to customer rage. Very curious to know if theses new ports are a lazy step back from those.

*It was all a big misunderstanding. Like a Three's Company episode.

The 360 and PS3 versions also have slower music, but I don't know if it's identical to the new versions. It's 35 FPS, but no aspact ratio issues because it's 4:3.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
numberwang said:

Really strange design choice to slow down the music for this remaster. 

Doom E1M1 on switch, way too slow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtfzZuHZoqs

Doom E1M1 on a range of software & hardware MIDI synths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IISnXltVz4A

Apparently, the first 2 games had been totally remade in Unity and couldn't reuse the old assets, including sound files. That's probably because the originals were programmed on NeXT computers, which were more comparable to MacIntoshs and Amigas of the time then to PCs (and it's OS was the base of MacOS), and none of the software used back then works on a PC or even Mac these days. So they had to completely remake them.

Doom music was done in General Midi, every synthesizer and software can play these.

You should be able to play them in Windows Media Player if you have the GM soundfont (or any other) installed.

https://midiarchive.co.uk/midi/Games/Doom



Bofferbrauer2 said:
curl-6 said:

Admittedly I'm no expert but surely these issues could have been corrected, I mean even if you can't use the original code, things like music playback being too slow or a borked aspect ratio can't be THAT hard to fix with all the wonders of modern technology?

Well, consider this: With today's technology, it's impossible to build the Saturn V, the rocket used to go to the moon. Why? Simply because the machinery and production techniques have fallen out of use and the new ones can't do the stuff needed to build the rocket.

A similar thing is true with software, especially when it comes from long disused and not being backwards compatible from any modern hardware. You often have to restart from scratch, as nothing can be reused. Especially when the originals used some glitches to their profit. For instance, if the sound uses a glitch that can't be found on modern hardware, they would have to emulate the glitch. It's possible something like that is happening here, but I'm not sure.

If not, well, it's Bethesda. They produce Bugs with some game content all the time.

I don't know about the engine being too old. The original engine was released by id years back as open source. The open source community has developed that code further and ported and adapted it to many platforms. See for example doomretro, prboom or gzdoom. Bethesda could have even used one of these engines.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

Yeah the more I read into it the more it seems less a case of insurmountable technological barriers and more a case of the guys at this studio Nerve just not doing a very good job for whatever reason, be it constraints in time or resources or just bad choices.

Lucky Doom 3 was given over to Panic Button, they almost always do solid to exemplary work.



curl-6 said:

Yeah the more I read into it the more it seems less a case of insurmountable technological barriers and more a case of the guys at this studio Nerve just not doing a very good job for whatever reason, be it constraints in time or resources or just bad choices.

Lucky Doom 3 was given over to Panic Button, they almost always do solid to exemplary work.

Same for me. Well, looks like Bethesda really had to pull an EA again and piss everyone off

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 04 August 2019