Quantcast
German election tomorrow

Forums - Politics Discussion - German election tomorrow

Who do your want to win?

CDU/CSU 31 10.69%
 
SPD 23 7.93%
 
Left 30 10.34%
 
Greens 12 4.14%
 
FDP 17 5.86%
 
AfD 59 20.34%
 
another one of the parties on ballot 6 2.07%
 
a party not on ballot 6 2.07%
 
no one 17 5.86%
 
see results 89 30.69%
 
Total:290
LadyJasmine said:
Errorist76 said:

How many immigrants who didn't know English did your nation let in in its existence?! Your clearly xenophobic and full of prejudices.

Most immigrants that come into Canada these days come through the points-based system that values learning either English or French beforehand.

Also, many of the refugees brought into the nation were pre-selected by the government as well. 

Furthermore, I  have read a lot of German politicians have looked to the Canadian system in how to shape the German system...

Reality is the Germany refugee experiment in 2015 was a disaster that was only corrected afterward shifting the focusing on reducing the numbers to a manageable levels and to focus on national security issues. 

 

The success of a refugee policy system is based on in this order.

1: Security

2: Ability to provide assistance 

3. Compassion 

You know what a real disaster is...that those countries mainly responsible for the wars causing the refugees are so hesitant taking them in. It's a shame the U.S., U.K. and Canada above all first mess everything up and don't want to be held responsible afterwards.

I'm proud that my country reacted as it did. Me and my family even help refugees almost every day. The message it sent to the wrong people is surely questionable and has been corrected since, I still think showing a heart is the better solution that spreading hate most of the times.



Around the Network

Canada, Australia, and New Zeland have very controlled immigration system due to geography and have done so with great success.



Errorist76 said:
LadyJasmine said:

Most immigrants that come into Canada these days come through the points-based system that values learning either English or French beforehand.

Also, many of the refugees brought into the nation were pre-selected by the government as well. 

Furthermore, I  have read a lot of German politicians have looked to the Canadian system in how to shape the German system...

Reality is the Germany refugee experiment in 2015 was a disaster that was only corrected afterward shifting the focusing on reducing the numbers to a manageable levels and to focus on national security issues. 

 

The success of a refugee policy system is based on in this order.

1: Security

2: Ability to provide assistance 

3. Compassion 

You know what a real disaster is...that those countries mainly responsible for the wars causing the refugees are so hesitant taking them in. It's a shame the U.S., U.K. and Canada above all derange everything and don't want to be held responsible afterwards.

I'm proud that my country reacted as it did. Me and my family even help refugees almost every day. The message it sent to the wrong people is surely questionable and has been corrected since, I still think showing a heart is the better solution that spreading hate most of the times.

Not wanting uncontrolled immigration into our nation is not hate, it is a logical expectation of a country with national sovereignty. 

Imo most people do think you guys did a good thing in principle, but the manner it as done did a lot more harm than good in shaping refugee policy in the Western World...Frankly, I think in the next wave, I doubt the German government or EU nations will open their arms at all or much and the 2015 experience is a direct cause of that.

Scenes of mass floods of people, New Years Sex assaults and all that imo sort of soured public Opinion in many other nations towards refugees. 

I be honest in Sept 2015, I was like wow so much compassion but seeing what happened afterward hardened my opinions.

Here in Canada due to what Happened in Germany, the government had to pretty much assure the public that:

-Refugees were being pre-screened and that security was number one concern

- Focus on real refugees from Syria and not economic migrants...

- Focus on people in families, as lone males were banned as refugees into the nation. 

- Bringing in a manageable number over a period of time.

 

 

I think imo a sensible policy serves the nation and helps refugees most.. 



LadyJasmine said:
Mnementh said:

Yeah, that's why I want direct democracy. Parliament should make in legislation in most cases, but if the people disagree or want a legislation that the parliament refuses they can put it to a vote. It's working in Switzerland.

 

 

Imo I find many people dont like direct democracy as they think the avg voter is stupid and uneducated which imo is an elitist statement. 

I do think for major issues like Brexit or changing the constitution and such things there should be referendums.

 

Having leaders who get like 30% of the vote deciding such issues is far less democratic. 

What are you talking about??? The parliament has the last word on such issues and for something like Brexit, you'd need at least 50% of the votes here. For changing the constitution 66.67%.

Also yes I think the average voter is not fit for direct democracy. Even the above average wouldn't be. You CAN'T be informed about everything going out there. To make a qualified decision, you'd need HOURS of personal research, looking for pros and contras, short terms and long terms effects. You can't tell me there are enough people willing to do that. And while the average voter might not be dumb, they are emotional, which is probably even worse.

Little Switzerland has about 10 referendums a year! The average turnout is at a pathetic low 45%. That means you only need 22.51% of the electorate to change laws! How very democratic.




Barozi said:
LadyJasmine said:

 

 

Imo I find many people dont like direct democracy as they think the avg voter is stupid and uneducated which imo is an elitist statement. 

I do think for major issues like Brexit or changing the constitution and such things there should be referendums.

 

Having leaders who get like 30% of the vote deciding such issues is far less democratic. 

What are you talking about??? The parliament has the last word on such issues and for something like Brexit, you'd need at least 50% of the votes here. For changing the constitution 66.67%.

Also yes I think the average voter is not fit for direct democracy. Even the above average wouldn't be. You CAN'T be informed about everything going out there. To make a qualified decision, you'd need HOURS of personal research, looking for pros and contras, short terms and long terms effects. You can't tell me there are enough people willing to do that. And while the average voter might not be dumb, they are emotional, which is probably even worse.

Little Switzerland has about 10 referendums a year! The average turnout is at a pathetic low 45%. That means you only need 22.51% of the electorate to change laws! How very democratic.


Agree on all fronts. Just imagine a country with a general low education level like the U.S. having a direct democracy. Idiocracy would be inevitable. That said it definitely should make one think that people rightfully want to feel more involved in decision processes, which should make elitist politicians think in how they can counter steer and avoid similar results as Trump, Brexit, Front Nationale or AfD elections in the future. If they don't it's only gonna get worse.



Around the Network

I have great doubts politicians read most of the legislation they vote on...

Most are corrupt and worried about keeping their party in power, so I don't have much faith in them at all...

I dont think on the budget and all bills there should be a direct democracy...

 

However, on something like Brexit or something of that nature, I think such issues can ONLY legitimately be settled by a referendum...

On certain issues, politicians are incapable of making decisions...they don't want to do anything drastic as it requires effort and may cost them vote...

 

Look at electoral reform in Canada, every time a politician gets elected and says they will reform the system...they get corrupted by power and never change it. 

Like can you really trust politicians



LadyJasmine said:
Errorist76 said:

How many immigrants who didn't know English did your nation let in in its existence?! Your clearly xenophobic and full of prejudices.

Most immigrants that come into Canada these days come through the points-based system that values learning either English or French beforehand.

Also, many of the refugees brought into the nation were pre-selected by the government as well. 

Furthermore, I  have read a lot of German politicians have looked to the Canadian system in how to shape the German system...

Reality is the Germany refugee experiment in 2015 was a disaster that was only corrected afterward shifting the focusing on reducing the numbers to a manageable levels and to focus on national security issues. 

 

The success of a refugee policy system is based on in this order.

1: Security

2: Ability to provide assistance 

3. Compassion 

One thing people have to understand is that in 2015, the infrastructure to properly parse/block the large wave of migrants entering the EU simply did not exist. At the same time, Southern Europe, the port of entry for illegal immigration, was recovering from a bad financial crisis, and most definitely could not need hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants entering undercutting labour in the black market. By offering legal recognition, Merkel succsefully sucked all of these into Germany, which, while equally unable to parse all the individuals, at least had the funds temporarily keep them there, until the EU got its brureaucratic systems up to par.

 

Notice that, while officialy talking about the necessity of open welcome in Germany, Merkel has, in the back, very actively worked to reduce migrant flow to the EU, negotiating a deal with Erdogan to close off the Turkey route, helping Italy finance its efforts in the mediterranean, as well as semi-offical groups in Libya to crack down on migrant traffickers on the African coast.

 

New arrivals to Europe have now been reduced to a manageable level (ca. 200 000/year, down from 1.3 million, in 2015): http://migration.iom.int/europe/



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

palou said:
LadyJasmine said:

Most immigrants that come into Canada these days come through the points-based system that values learning either English or French beforehand.

Also, many of the refugees brought into the nation were pre-selected by the government as well. 

Furthermore, I  have read a lot of German politicians have looked to the Canadian system in how to shape the German system...

Reality is the Germany refugee experiment in 2015 was a disaster that was only corrected afterward shifting the focusing on reducing the numbers to a manageable levels and to focus on national security issues. 

 

The success of a refugee policy system is based on in this order.

1: Security

2: Ability to provide assistance 

3. Compassion 

One thing people have to understand is that in 2015, the infrastructure to properly parse/block the large wave of migrants entering the EU simply did not exist. At the same time, Southern Europe, the port of entry for illegal immigration, was recovering from a bad financial crisis, and most definitely could not need hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants entering undercutting labour in the black market. By offering legal recognition, Merkel succsefully sucked all of these into Germany, which, while equally unable to parse all the individuals, at least had the funds temporarily keep them there, until the EU got its brureaucratic systems up to par.

 

Notice that, while officialy talking about the necessity of open welcome in Germany, Merkel has, in the back, very actively worked to reduce migrant flow to the EU, negotiating a deal with Erdogan to close off the Turkey route, helping Italy finance its efforts in the mediterranean, as well as semi-offical groups in Libya to crack down on migrant traffickers on the African coast.

 

New arrivals to Europe have now been reduced to a manageable level (ca. 200 000/year, down from 1.3 million, in 2015): http://migration.iom.int/europe/

 

So, in reality, the open border policy was a complete failure in 2015 and then rather than being honest about it...

They are mostly trying to cut off the flow and claim success the refugee policy worked... when it only worked by mostly shutting the doors closed?

 

Reality was taking 1 million plus people was a mistake as it totally destabilized immigration and refugee policies around the western world from compassion to closing borders.

 

Like countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and such have rather soured thier attitudes from open doors to be far more restrictive.

 

 



LadyJasmine said:
palou said:

One thing people have to understand is that in 2015, the infrastructure to properly parse/block the large wave of migrants entering the EU simply did not exist. At the same time, Southern Europe, the port of entry for illegal immigration, was recovering from a bad financial crisis, and most definitely could not need hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants entering undercutting labour in the black market. By offering legal recognition, Merkel succsefully sucked all of these into Germany, which, while equally unable to parse all the individuals, at least had the funds temporarily keep them there, until the EU got its brureaucratic systems up to par.

 

Notice that, while officialy talking about the necessity of open welcome in Germany, Merkel has, in the back, very actively worked to reduce migrant flow to the EU, negotiating a deal with Erdogan to close off the Turkey route, helping Italy finance its efforts in the mediterranean, as well as semi-offical groups in Libya to crack down on migrant traffickers on the African coast.

 

New arrivals to Europe have now been reduced to a manageable level (ca. 200 000/year, down from 1.3 million, in 2015): http://migration.iom.int/europe/

 

So, in reality, the open border policy was a complete failure in 2015 and then rather than being honest about it...

They are mostly trying to cut off the flow and claim success the refugee policy worked... when it only worked by mostly shutting the doors closed?

 

Reality was taking 1 million plus people was a mistake as it totally destabilized immigration and refugee policies around the western world from compassion to closing borders.

 

Like countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and such have rather soured thier attitudes from open doors to be far more restrictive.

 

 

I think you misuderstood my comment. In reality, millions of migrants entering the EU was never *not an option* in 2015, because, as said, EU did not have the infrastructure to prevent that from being the case. It was something unprecedented, that they were not prepared for.

 

Germany alegalized the 1 million refugees because these would have otherwise stayed, illegally, in the South of Europe, which would not have been manageable for said southern neighbours (and Germany needed the weaker EU members to recover, at that time). If you haven't noticed, Germany only has EU borders, by land or sea. Any open-border policy existing in Germany implies that the refugees were, illegaly, in another EU state beforehand, which is worse than them being supervised, inside Germany. Merkel drained the EU of its illegal residents. She never stood in the way of the EU attempting to stop further illegal migrants from entering, and has, in fact worked towards that for a long time already.

European politicians mobilized since day 1 to prevent further influx into the EU. However, the infrastructure to do so isn't something that you can create out of thin air. 



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Aw no, election is over already? Missed it... again. Uhwell, i can still play

http://bundesfighter.de



Hunting Season is done...