It's control versus story.

It's designer versus writer.



Anyway...

When I played Valkyrie Profile 2 I never did think I was playing the role of Silmeria. I just played it. I mean, I'm a guy.

So the "Role Playing" of most RPGs (JRPGs in particular) is really a misnomer. But the name sticks mainly because of the historical evolution of RPGs in Japan. A term changes its meaning over time (like the word "normal" from "norma" which originally meant beautiful).

We could really argue that there's no "Role Playing" in "Role Playing Games", but that will go against normal usage. It's not really a question of whether or not it is the *right* term, but rather whether it is the accepted term.

A very good point of the J man. Very entertaining as always.

WRPGs are the real RPGs
JRPGs are so boring IMO

So what exactly do you do to your character except give him a better weapon here or there and wait for him to level up? No decision making at all on the path your characters take. Select a job and that's it. And the fact you have to wait for cooldowns and what not does not change the fact they are turn based. You don't even have control over your character when you do battle. You have control over a pointer which in turn it controls the battle, sprinkle in some itneresting battle mechanics on top of that and you're set. I'm hardly playing my characters. It all comes down to the strategy the person uses and there is very little skill involved.

There you go I fixed it for you.

Isn't it roleplaying even when evolving is linear?

An RPG requires that you play a role not follow one. There is a distinct, but subtle different between them in regards to the wording. The reference to "role play" in the meaning isn't the "using" of an avatar, but instead the ability to interact with the world as the avatar based on the avatars abilities. This exludes games like Halo, GTA, Mario. You do play a role, but these roles capabilities are defined by player skill(as mentioned above). The meaning of "Role Play" really comes down to level of interaction with the world.

JRPGs and a fair number of WRPGs are not RPGs, but only classify themselves as such because it's easy and has some of the trappings. JRPGS are Cinemamatic Avatar Progressive Tactical Games(CAPTG). As mentnioned they are about emotional manipulation rather than personal immersion. We watch a show more than control the show.

Now of course many WRPG aren't any more RPG than JRPG, but give more of an illusion of an RPG. NWN main story is not an RPG, but is a Freeform APTG. NWN2 does a better job, becuase there is more influence and interaction. KoToR by the same reasoning borders the line. While KoToR 2 just crosses the line to an RPG.(Notice how the part 2s are from Obsidion which have members from Black Isle. BI the RPG division of Interplay. Interplay creating Fallout.)

Fallout, Dagger Fall(haven't played Morrowind or Oblivion), Sea Dogs*, Mount & Blade* are the only WRPG that I could easily classify as RPG. They let the player control the show and how well they control the show depends on the avatar abilities, not raw player skill.

MMORPG. Most aren't. What makes any of them RPG like is the interaction with players. Which is limited to pretending in a strict mechanics world. Most MMORPG are more like NWN a FAPTG. This is because players can't control the show. The interaction is limited to a minimal get and complete quest system.

I apolgize to all RPGs that are RPGs that I haven't mentioned do to lack of playing. I would like to try Mass Effect, but my HDD on my PC is only 40gb.

So JRPGs aren't. Hell though some are damnd fun and entertaining.

*Has a lot of player skill required, but does everything else so well to be an RPG.

My RPG is bigger than your RPG.

The character depth and interaction of KotOR1/2 are pretty much identical and your choices have about the same weight on the story in each (Light or Dark for the most part).  Even some of the characters in KotOR2 are almost clones of ones in KotOR. 

And despite mentioning Black Isle you don't mention Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, or Planescape Torment.  At least two of which considered by many to be among the best computer RPGs of all-time.  Of course, pretty much any game built with the Infinity Engine was destined for greatness in that time period.

You can make lots of big statements but your claims end up pretty shallow if you don't have the knowledge to back them up or your premise is wrong.

I had a lot of respect for you before this thread Jman.

 How did the J man get out of character? The J man shall always be the J man