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Forums - Nintendo - No 3D Mario on Switch 2 yet seems to have short-circuited a lot of folks

Mnementh said:
angrypoolman said:
oh ok i see now. more sales means more people like it means its bigger. that makes sense. well ill hold out to see how many sales these games are going to get before i form an opinion next time.

Oh no, you alone have the power to decide what is big based on your personal tastes. And even though Starfox crashed and burned every time since the N64: Star Fox Zero, Star Fox 64 3D. But no, it must be a big because angrypoolman likes it. And everyone who cannot see it's greatness must be purposely obtuse.

As the teenager I am according to you, in the 90s I played Baldur's 1+2. This franchise was abandoned for more than 2 decades, but Baldur's Gate 3 proved it is still a relevant franchise today. So old franchises *can* still be relevant. Starfox got so many chances by Nintendo over the years, but clearly nobody gives a shit anymore. Nintendo is better off torching this franchises and focusing their effort on more relevant - and quite frankly better - franchises. That they keep wasting their developer time on that is impossible to understand.

those star fox games crashed and burned because they were garbage. 

i know, i know. who am i to say theyre garbage, another instance of me saying what i like is superior and what everyone else likes doesnt matter blah blah blah

well guess what, theyre garbage. baldurs gate 3 wasnt garbage which is why it was able to re establish relevance again. maybe they should make a star fox that isnt garbage, which is what this remake could have been.

and yes you must be a teenager because you must not remember ten years ago when star fox zero was in development. people were absolutely hyped for that game because it looked like it was going to be a return to form. but no, they decided to fuck with it and now it is generally regarded as more garbage. they havent given star fox a fair shot, they always are doing some bullshit with it, which is why the franchise sucks now. what i am saying is so obvious to anyone who has been around and paid attention just a little bit.



Total Championships: Nintendo - 4, Sony - 2, Atari - 1, Microsoft - 0, Sega - 0

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zorg1000 said:
Louie_86 said:

Which is a fair POV for most casual fans. Some people do literally wait for a new Mario or new Zelda to even decide to buy the console. MPrime4 is not gonna get them hyped. DKBananza is not a deal maker. A new Yoshi game is not in their radar 

NS2 has plenty of games, sure, but id be disingenuous if I tell you they are all on the same level. Casual players are married to speciffic IPs

I get where you’re coming from but it’s the equivalent of saying Sony has a bad lineup any year without a brand new God of War or Naughty Dog game or Microsoft has a bad lineup any year without a brand new Halo or Gears game and it doesn’t count if it’s a port, remake, spinoff or is cross-gen.

Sure, Im just saying thats a fair opinion to have if thats how you feel, it wouldnt be MY opinion, but i understand some of the bigger IPs wont appeal to some people, and to them it might seem like a weak lineup, unappealing lineup, weak year, or whatever they wanna call it. 

But even if that were to be how I feel, I wouldnt make a thread about it, or argue online for that POV, cause thats very self-centered, its games i wont even give a chance and wont bother playing, like Vek said, and i understand that i shouldnt be surprised when my unpopular opinon turns out to be unpopular. 



back in 2014 i derided the ps4 for releasing ports and remakes before they delivered the goods and im doing the same thing now. i may be a nintendrone but hey my moral code remains consistent and intact.



Total Championships: Nintendo - 4, Sony - 2, Atari - 1, Microsoft - 0, Sega - 0

Veknoid_Outcast said:

I actually think it's totally fair to insist a system has "no games" if none of them satisfy you. It's not the responsibility of the individual to appreciate everything a company puts out, or to care if others like the line-up. If Nintendo puts out 50 games, and I dislike them all, well, then there really are no games.

Here are the problems, though:

  • A lot of video game enthusiasts don't bother to actually play the games.
  • Video game enthusiasts can be weirdly picky and inflexible, refusing to explore entire genres or balking because of one design decision.

This is totally fine, by the way. But you shouldn't weigh in with such confidence if you're not spending the time and energy to properly experience a game library. And I'm not talking about so-called "casual" players. They're playing their favorites and living their lives. I'm talking about us.

I highly disagree with that opening sentence: You can insist that a gaming system “has no games for me” or “has no games that I’m interested in,” but to say because the system lacks a library which fits your preference thereby must not have much of an offering (i.e. “has no games… period.”), that’s very different.

Also, it’s not about being against others holding a business accountable for their output; it’s more about convincing others to have an open mind for their own personal enjoyment’s sake. For somebody to say “Switch 2 has no games!” and be responded with “Of course it does. Look at X, Y, and Z.”, that’s not a case of bootlicking: that’s a case of “well have you considered trying these games?”



Signalstar said:

No new mainline Zelda or Mario in sight after s year on the market is a crazy strategy from Nintendo. Switch had both in 2017.

3D Mario I agree with.

3D Zelda has been in a very weird spot longer than 3D Mario. Breath of the Wild was announced way back in 2013 as a Wii U exclusive for 2015. That didn't happen, and Wii U's short life led it to launch with Switch and still make it to Wii U. 

Then an asset-reusing sequel (albeit a big one) happens, and it takes the longest in release time that any Zelda game has ever taken. I know COVID-19 was a thing, but still. 

It would be crazy for Nintendo to announce a new 3D Zelda already. when it's surely at minimum 2 years out. 

A new 3D Mario is taking forever, longer than a release gap for 3D Zelda. Bowser's Fury only slightly mitigates that length, if at all. 

Nintendo has clearly proven they don't need new 3D Zelda titles or new 3D Mario titles as often as they used to. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 159 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million, then 161 million)

PS5: 116 million (was 105 million, then 115 million, then 122 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

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I think Nintendo knows what they are doing, if ther lineup next year is something like Pokemon Winds/Waves, 3D Mario, Lugi's Mansion 4, Xenoblade Genesis and whatever else they have in store for next year pretty much all negative discussion regarding Switch 2s lineup will disappear.



Here is the funny thing about narrative vs. facts.  The vast majority of people believe narrative.  They do not believe facts.  I've even caught people on this site doing it, and people here value data a lot more than other sites.  That is just how powerful narrative is.  However, I'm going to state the facts below even if it contradicts some popular narratives.

Nintendo has been making games a long time, and their fanbase can be split up into 6 groups based on what their favorite system(s) is/are.  These are 1) NES/SNES, 2) N64/GCN, 3) Wii/Wii U, 4) GB/GBA, 5) DS/3DS, and 6) Switch/Switch 2.  Now let's order these systems from most to least popular (based on hardware and software) and and also list the most important franchise or two from these systems:

1) DS/3DS - Pokemon, 2D Mario

2) Switch/Switch 2 - Mario Kart, Animal Crossing

3) GB/GBA - Pokemon

4) Wii/Wii U - Wii Sports, Mario Kart

5) NES/SNES - 2D Mario

6) N64/GCN - 3D Mario, Smash Bros

I'm stripping it down to just a franchise or two per group for simplicity sake, but it still gives you a pretty good idea how each group thinks.  If a person thinks N64 is the greatest system ever, and he sees a 3D Mario game that he likes on a new Nintendo system, then he thinks, "this system is for me" and otherwise he thinks "this Nintendo system is not for me".  Furthermore, a compelling Wii Sports or Mario Kart game is what pulls in Wii fans, and a compelling 2D Mario is what pulls in NES/SNES fans.

Also we can roughly rank Nintendo's top franchises based on the earlier list I made.  It looks something like this from most to least important:

1) Pokemon
2) Mario Kart
3) 2D Mario
4) Animal Crossing
5) Wii Sports
6) 3D Mario
7) Smash Bros  

All 7 of these franchises are highly important, but Pokemon and Mario Kart actually are the most important.  I say this, because N64/GCN fans are the most vocal fans online, but there are actually the smallest of the 6 groups of Nintendo fans.  The people calling for 3D Mario are the N64 fans, and they authentically want a new 3D Mario, but Wii fans want a new Wii Sports game and NES fans want a new 2D Mario game, but they are just less vocal.  And Pokemon fans are probably the biggest group, and what they really want is a revolutionary new Pokemon game in the same way that Breath of the Wild was revolutionary to Zelda.

So, I use this to evaluate how Nintendo is doing from a business side.  Mario Kart is hugely important and it launched the system.  Pokemon is also hugely important and the 2nd best selling Switch 2 game is a Pokemon spinoff.  They also have Switch Sports Resort on the way, which has a lot more sports than Switch Sports did.  This looks like Nintendo is trying harder to get Wii fans to buy the Switch 2, because not enough people bought Switch Sports.  N64 fans are getting remakes of Zelda and Starfox, and Nintendo is hoping this is enough of a stopgap until their 3D Mario is ready.  However, what N64 fans really want most is a new 3D Mario, and that is why they are complaining.  

tl;dr
Nintendo is doing a good job of selling the Switch 2 and pleasing a lot of their fans.  From a business perspective Nintendo's strategy is solid, but N64 fans are going to keep complaining until they get a new 3D Mario game.



firebush03 said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

I actually think it's totally fair to insist a system has "no games" if none of them satisfy you. It's not the responsibility of the individual to appreciate everything a company puts out, or to care if others like the line-up. If Nintendo puts out 50 games, and I dislike them all, well, then there really are no games.

Here are the problems, though:

  • A lot of video game enthusiasts don't bother to actually play the games.
  • Video game enthusiasts can be weirdly picky and inflexible, refusing to explore entire genres or balking because of one design decision.

This is totally fine, by the way. But you shouldn't weigh in with such confidence if you're not spending the time and energy to properly experience a game library. And I'm not talking about so-called "casual" players. They're playing their favorites and living their lives. I'm talking about us.

I highly disagree with that opening sentence: You can insist that a gaming system “has no games for me” or “has no games that I’m interested in,” but to say because the system lacks a library which fits your preference thereby must not have much of an offering (i.e. “has no games… period.”), that’s very different.

Also, it’s not about being against others holding a business accountable for their output; it’s more about convincing others to have an open mind for their own personal enjoyment’s sake. For somebody to say “Switch 2 has no games!” and be responded with “Of course it does. Look at X, Y, and Z.”, that’s not a case of bootlicking: that’s a case of “well have you considered trying these games?”

In my opinion, "has no games for me" and "has no games" are the same thing. Why would I celebrate a game library that offers me nothing, regardless of its size?



The_Liquid_Laser said:

Here is the funny thing about narrative vs. facts.  The vast majority of people believe narrative.  They do not believe facts.  I've even caught people on this site doing it, and people here value data a lot more than other sites.  That is just how powerful narrative is.  However, I'm going to state the facts below even if it contradicts some popular narratives.

Nintendo has been making games a long time, and their fanbase can be split up into 6 groups based on what their favorite system(s) is/are.  These are 1) NES/SNES, 2) N64/GCN, 3) Wii/Wii U, 4) GB/GBA, 5) DS/3DS, and 6) Switch/Switch 2.  Now let's order these systems from most to least popular (based on hardware and software) and and also list the most important franchise or two from these systems:

1) DS/3DS - Pokemon, 2D Mario

2) Switch/Switch 2 - Mario Kart, Animal Crossing

3) GB/GBA - Pokemon

4) Wii/Wii U - Wii Sports, Mario Kart

5) NES/SNES - 2D Mario

6) N64/GCN - 3D Mario, Smash Bros

I'm stripping it down to just a franchise or two per group for simplicity sake, but it still gives you a pretty good idea how each group thinks.  If a person thinks N64 is the greatest system ever, and he sees a 3D Mario game that he likes on a new Nintendo system, then he thinks, "this system is for me" and otherwise he thinks "this Nintendo system is not for me".  Furthermore, a compelling Wii Sports or Mario Kart game is what pulls in Wii fans, and a compelling 2D Mario is what pulls in NES/SNES fans.

Also we can roughly rank Nintendo's top franchises based on the earlier list I made.  It looks something like this from most to least important:

1) Pokemon
2) Mario Kart
3) 2D Mario
4) Animal Crossing
5) Wii Sports
6) 3D Mario
7) Smash Bros  

All 7 of these franchises are highly important, but Pokemon and Mario Kart actually are the most important.  I say this, because N64/GCN fans are the most vocal fans online, but there are actually the smallest of the 6 groups of Nintendo fans.  The people calling for 3D Mario are the N64 fans, and they authentically want a new 3D Mario, but Wii fans want a new Wii Sports game and NES fans want a new 2D Mario game, but they are just less vocal.  And Pokemon fans are probably the biggest group, and what they really want is a revolutionary new Pokemon game in the same way that Breath of the Wild was revolutionary to Zelda.

So, I use this to evaluate how Nintendo is doing from a business side.  Mario Kart is hugely important and it launched the system.  Pokemon is also hugely important and the 2nd best selling Switch 2 game is a Pokemon spinoff.  They also have Switch Sports Resort on the way, which has a lot more sports than Switch Sports did.  This looks like Nintendo is trying harder to get Wii fans to buy the Switch 2, because not enough people bought Switch Sports.  N64 fans are getting remakes of Zelda and Starfox, and Nintendo is hoping this is enough of a stopgap until their 3D Mario is ready.  However, what N64 fans really want most is a new 3D Mario, and that is why they are complaining.  

tl;dr
Nintendo is doing a good job of selling the Switch 2 and pleasing a lot of their fans.  From a business perspective Nintendo's strategy is solid, but N64 fans are going to keep complaining until they get a new 3D Mario game.

noooo way you saw people on this site doing it? thats just crazy and i dont know if i believe it.

in all seriousness though, i appreciate this analysis. i really dont want to nitpick it but i did want to say this: speaking personally, i dont fall into any of those six categories. im more of a snes/n64 with a heavy leaning toward snes. so as im reading your post, im trying to see if my sensibilities are at all represented in your analysis and i cant say that it is. which is fine, but i did think it was worth pointing out as a way to kind of see if it works in my case. i do think it was an otherwise solid summary of whats going on, and of course nintendo is making solid financial decisions. that isnt really what any of the discussions post direct have been about. i think we all understand theyre doing great regardless of whatever side youre on. i hate repeating myself for the 100th time, but i will do it again for the sake of clarity. my complaint is that their biggest release for the year is a remake (even if its not the highest selling game of the year they are positioning it as their most important release to satisfy their core fanbase - hence, biggest release) while they are padding their first party announcements with switch 2 upgrades. they have not built up enough of a library of original titles in order to justify it in my mind. but as ive learned, pokopia came out and that was a huge release that sold a ton of copies.

Last edited by angrypoolman - on 12 June 2026

Total Championships: Nintendo - 4, Sony - 2, Atari - 1, Microsoft - 0, Sega - 0

We all know if Nintendo was focusing on Mario and Zelda to sell the Switch 2, we'd be getting complaints about Nintendo only doing that......

People want Nintendo to work with other IPS, and they want Nintendo to only stick to X IPs.



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?