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Forums - Sony - Will Sony Copy Microsoft and Make Playstation a 3rd Party Publisher?

 

Will Playstation also go 3rd party?

Yes 30 35.71%
 
No 54 64.29%
 
Total:84
xboxgreen said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Spiderman 2 cost around 300 million to make and sold over 10 million copies within four months of release. At $70 per copy that's 700 million dollars of revenue in four months. 400 million of that would be pure profit. That's before we factor in that Spiderman 2 would have pushed 2 to 3 million people to buy a PS5. And every 3rd party game those 2 to 3 million people buy on PS5 nets Sony a 30% royalty cut. So, we are talking even more hundreds of millions long-term here. 

Sony's leadership didn't do this because "development costs are ballooning". They are doing it because of pure greed and tariffs threatening to destroy the traditional console strategy in the USA. 

P.S. Marvel charges a lot to license out Spiderman. So other PS titles will have around 20% less in development costs. 

You are forgetting retailers like game stop takes a cut as well and I'm sure there are other things we are not factoring like bundles and discounts.
Oh, all of that profit was wiped away with Concord alone. Not including all of the Sony failed GAAS attempts they poured billions of dollars into.

Sony first party studios isn't doing as well as you think it is. That is why they are remastering and now porting their games to other platforms. They have no choice or else share holders will get involve and start forcing Sony to close their studios down and take less risk.

Making 10% profit is considered golden in most businesses. Even if you factored in the negligible $10 that retailers kept and sales there's more than enough to have well over 70% profit. Exclusives like Spiderman 2 literally print money. 

Concord was $800 million. Just two exclusives would cover the loss of Concord. And Sony's solution to that issue shouldn't be to go 3rd party. As it was pointed out previously in this thread Sony makes $800 per PS5 customer during a console life cycle. That number is profit and doesn't include the $550 for a PS5 sold. If you included pure revenue it would be much higher. Meanwhile your average 3rd party customer might buy 3 or 4 Sony titles that are taxed at 30% on Steam. A customer moving from PS5 to mainly being on PC costs Sony well over $600 per console cycle. You need five to six non-PS5 owning customers to replace a single PS5 owning customer. 

But again, what happens when a PS5 costs $800 due to Trump tariffs? Well then, you can't sell consoles. And what happens if you decide to sell those $800 PS5s for $550 anyway? Well then, you incur a $350 loss per console, and that eats into your profits massively. Sony can't sustain selling consoles at that kind of a loss. They are afraid that one bump in the road will destroy their console business model so they are going 3rd party. 



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xboxgreen said:
kazuyamishima said:

If they decide to go multiplatform with most of the bestselling PS titles, that will accelerate their Studio Acquistion strategy.

Exactly, they need to raise the capital to purchase more studios. The future isn't consoles but cloud streaming.

Gamepass has been stuck at roughly 25 million users the past few years. Don't be tricked by MS labeling XBL Gold users as "gamepass core" and then triumphantly claiming that gamepass users have reached 35 million. What's next? Will they come up with a completely free version of gamepass that gives you nothing more than an Xbox account and then truimphantly claim that gamepass users have reached 100 million? Stadia failed. Amazon's cloud project hasn't gotten off the ground. Gamepass isn't even profitable unless you fail to account for the loss of 1st party sales and fail to account for the loss of 30% of 3rd party revenue. 



Cerebralbore101 said:


Concord was $800 million. Just two exclusives would cover the loss of Concord. 

I'm startled that you actually believe Concord cost this much... 



Sogreblute said:

You can only keep selling the same game to the same audience for so long. At some point you have to expand to other platforms to gather a new audience. I think those games would have sold more on Xbox and Switch than PS5 especially since those gamers already had access to them from PS4 and had a $10 upgrade, whereas the other platforms would have to pay full price. Those games reached their max potential on PS and PC, so the next step is Xbox and Switch.

I've always wondered this. Sony said they were expanding their games to PC initially because they wanted to expose the PC audience to their games to get them to buy a PS (obviously didn't work and are now doing it just to make more money), so why not apply that same logic to Xbox and Switch?

Going forward, Xbox may as well just be PC box (we'll see how they plan for this when the next Xbox is announced). They make their games Steamdeck compatible, so they may as well make them Xbox compatible too - they're all part of the PC audience now.

I'm not necessarily a proponent of releasing more of their games everywhere, but I understand the business logic, especially if that game/ IP isn't really selling anymore on their own hardware.

I imagine nothing changes with their strategy: live service will be in as many places as possible. SP games will be PS first, then PC later on. Their licensed stuff will obviously be everywhere since that's probably what makes it more attractive for the publisher picking the IP up. Then some other random stuff (like Lego Horizon) on the side. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
xboxgreen said:

You are forgetting retailers like game stop takes a cut as well and I'm sure there are other things we are not factoring like bundles and discounts.
Oh, all of that profit was wiped away with Concord alone. Not including all of the Sony failed GAAS attempts they poured billions of dollars into.

Sony first party studios isn't doing as well as you think it is. That is why they are remastering and now porting their games to other platforms. They have no choice or else share holders will get involve and start forcing Sony to close their studios down and take less risk.

Making 10% profit is considered golden in most businesses. Even if you factored in the negligible $10 that retailers kept and sales there's more than enough to have well over 70% profit. Exclusives like Spiderman 2 literally print money. 

Concord was $800 million. Just two exclusives would cover the loss of Concord. And Sony's solution to that issue shouldn't be to go 3rd party. As it was pointed out previously in this thread Sony makes $800 per PS5 customer during a console life cycle. That number is profit and doesn't include the $550 for a PS5 sold. If you included pure revenue it would be much higher. Meanwhile your average 3rd party customer might buy 3 or 4 Sony titles that are taxed at 30% on Steam. A customer moving from PS5 to mainly being on PC costs Sony well over $600 per console cycle. You need five to six non-PS5 owning customers to replace a single PS5 owning customer. 

But again, what happens when a PS5 costs $800 due to Trump tariffs? Well then, you can't sell consoles. And what happens if you decide to sell those $800 PS5s for $550 anyway? Well then, you incur a $350 loss per console, and that eats into your profits massively. Sony can't sustain selling consoles at that kind of a loss. They are afraid that one bump in the road will destroy their console business model so they are going 3rd party. 

In movies the general rule is you need to make at least 1.5 to two times the costs for it to be profitable. I do t see why that's different for games. So a game costing 200 million, better bring in at least 400 million of revenue. Playstation is now one of the biggest players in the business, however without PlayStation hardware, they are not much bigger than EA. Sony doesn't release and sell that many titles a year.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Cerebralbore101 said:
xboxgreen said:

Their profits increase because of PC ports, third party sales, and PSN.

So their profits increase because of PSN and the 30% revenue tax they get from 3rd party sales? That means their profits increase from increasing the number of PS5 users. And guess what increases the number of PS5 users? Exclusives. 

Here are the top played playstation games. None of them are exclusive. Heck, there are more Microsoft games on the list than Sony games.

https://newzoo.com/resources/rankings/top-ps5-games

Porting Spiderman to Xbox will not hurt Playstation sales.



Qwark said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Making 10% profit is considered golden in most businesses. Even if you factored in the negligible $10 that retailers kept and sales there's more than enough to have well over 70% profit. Exclusives like Spiderman 2 literally print money. 

Concord was $800 million. Just two exclusives would cover the loss of Concord. And Sony's solution to that issue shouldn't be to go 3rd party. As it was pointed out previously in this thread Sony makes $800 per PS5 customer during a console life cycle. That number is profit and doesn't include the $550 for a PS5 sold. If you included pure revenue it would be much higher. Meanwhile your average 3rd party customer might buy 3 or 4 Sony titles that are taxed at 30% on Steam. A customer moving from PS5 to mainly being on PC costs Sony well over $600 per console cycle. You need five to six non-PS5 owning customers to replace a single PS5 owning customer. 

But again, what happens when a PS5 costs $800 due to Trump tariffs? Well then, you can't sell consoles. And what happens if you decide to sell those $800 PS5s for $550 anyway? Well then, you incur a $350 loss per console, and that eats into your profits massively. Sony can't sustain selling consoles at that kind of a loss. They are afraid that one bump in the road will destroy their console business model so they are going 3rd party. 

In movies the general rule is you need to make at least 1.5 to two times the costs for it to be profitable. I do t see why that's different for games. So a game costing 200 million, better bring in at least 400 million of revenue. Playstation is now one of the biggest players in the business, however without PlayStation hardware, they are not much bigger than EA. Sony doesn't release and sell that many titles a year.

Yeah production budgets usually don't include advertising costs, which for modern games/movies (at least the big ones) is often colossal in its own right.



curl-6 said:
Qwark said:

In movies the general rule is you need to make at least 1.5 to two times the costs for it to be profitable. I do t see why that's different for games. So a game costing 200 million, better bring in at least 400 million of revenue. Playstation is now one of the biggest players in the business, however without PlayStation hardware, they are not much bigger than EA. Sony doesn't release and sell that many titles a year.

Yeah production budgets usually don't include advertising costs, which for modern games/movies (at least the big ones) is often colossal in its own right.

Niche-Man 2 had a marketing cost of around $35m.

Marketing campaigns are not the same with games as with movies. 



Cerebralbore101 said:

What's going to happen here is that Sony will slowly shrink and then close their 1st party studios since some part of Sony's leadership has deemed them "unnecessary". Sony's corporate leadership has taken the same braindead position as Phil Spencer by thinking "I could make the greatest game of all time and it wouldn't move console sales one bit". Once you start thinking that way 1st party games take a backseat to whatever other nonsense you are doing. It's already started happening. Bend Studio got its game canceled. Insomniac had layoffs despite Spiderman 2 selling insanely well. The Gravityrush team was let go. Naughty Dog hasn't made a game since 2019. Media Molecule is pretty much dead.

It's so frustrating to see such non-competition between Sony and MS. It's a two horse race and there's no penalty for coming in second anymore. Anything Xbox does to make their brand worse Sony will copy because where else are high-end console players going to go? It's similar to how the Republican and Democratic parties work in the USA. Republicans plan to increase the national debt by 100%. Democrats counter by saying they will only increase the national debt by 95%. A few years later Republicans say they will increase the national debt by 180%. Democrats then decide that they will only increase it by 175%. So you have this non-competitive two man race to the bottom.

Thank God for Nintendo, Indies, and quirky Japanese 3rd party devs. That's where creativity will come from in this industry.

I think you are missing and mixing some stuff there.

Sony cancelled a lot of games because those were live service games that after the Concord fiasco were found to be likely to fail as well, so stopping them right there was more cost efficient that wasting more money to complete and release them and fail regardless. Some of these studios had to start new game projects and that takes years, that's why they had no games launched. That has nothing to do with Sony not wanting to make games themselves anymore, actually there is not even a single hint about it anywhere, even this whole thing is because Sony is pursuing to develop more games for and beyond Playstation. They stupiditly put far too many of their studios efforts on chasing live services games so they could have their Fortnite, Call of Duty, Overwatch, etc, and failed miserably on it, that is it.

Just look at the last state of plays, Sony is, as it has always been doing, developing high quality games and using them as big showings for the brand. Nothing has changed there. At least up until now, and I see no indicator it is changing as well. Almost every year or two Sony has some of the most acclaimed games being released out there, look at the goty awards, and that is even considering so many cancelled games and lost dev time.



kazuyamishima said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah production budgets usually don't include advertising costs, which for modern games/movies (at least the big ones) is often colossal in its own right.

Niche-Man 2 had a marketing cost of around $35m.

Marketing campaigns are not the same with games as with movies. 

$35 million is more than the cost of most whole video games. 

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, released earlier this year, cost $41m in its entirety.