Wman1996 said:
Critics loved the Sonic Adventure games and were much more critical of their GameCube ports. Not so sure about players in general. I think the hype ran out for the critics or they thought the ports needed more. |
Sonic Adventure was the real first full 3D platformer Sonic game, many years awaited during the Saturn era and when SA was finally shown, for the new Sega console... that game was just amazing in 1998-1999.
The sequel was also appreciated, especially after the machine being already discontinnued by Sega months before.
When both appeared in Gamecube, some years later, they were already "old products" and people demanded much more from a GC game, to be hyped. They were just a "fine ports" (in fact, Sonic Adventure 2 was released much before SA1 in GC, because it was newer in the market, being one of the last great Dreamcast games. The first Sonic Adventure, instead, was released in GC in 2003... when the original game was from 1998 (in Japan). That was quite some time. Plus, 3D platforming had been greatly replaced in the market with more convoluted 3D adventure games or even 3D RPGs by then (now, many of those games are rejected or bored by many, for being too convoluted and pretentious to be easy replayable by actual standards), and 3D platformers were seen more and more as a simpler genre, basically... for children.
A Sonic Adventure in 2002 was not the same it was in 1998. Also, in 2002 the Gamecube public just wanted to finally play the new next gen Mario and Zelda games (and both turned to be, somewhat, disappointing games, or at least... very controversial for many: Sunshine and Wind Waker. The first one, for its excessive blurry textures and the "strange" FLUDD new gameplay dynamics (too different from SM64 ones to be considered its "long anticipated sequel"), and the WW for the aggresive new artistic path taken, and for being TOO easy, when people demanded an ultra realistic Ocarina-kind of game (maybe some part of the GC failure in the market was because that game aesthetics showed in the E3 of 2001: I really forgot the truly massive disappointment that trailer was for many, by then. And I mean... massive).
Salnax said:
A Few More Examples: - Banjo-Tooie - Back in 2000, this game was seen as a bigger and better sequel to the original Banjo-Kazooie, with big open levels. Nowadays, the game is considered the weaker of the duo for the exact same reason.
- Chrono Cross - Had a Metascore of 94 and perfect scores from reviewers like GameSpot, PSX Nation, PlayStation Magazine, etc. But when was the last time people talked about it?
- Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters - Was seen as a technical marvel on the PSP, but even a year or two after launch, the game was being criticized for being short, clunky, and having poor level design.
- Tekken 2 - This was a massive hit in arcades and on PlayStation, but is mostly overlooked nowadays in favor of the latter Tekken 3, which had a better emphasis on 3D movement, more polished mechanics, more modes, and Gon.
- Vagrant Story - A universally acclaimed action-RPG, Famitsu's best-reviewed PS1 game, with a renowned story. Nowadays, it's the practically forgotten Ivalice game.
- Virtua Fighter (series) - The original was one of the most influential games in history, VF2 was the biggest game on Saturn, and VF4 arguably the top rated game of the PS2 era. But nowadays, people barely noticed when Sega announced they're making a new major entry.
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I agree with Banjo-Tooie, that game was massive as hell, as people supposedly demanded to be the 3D games, by then. Now, is way too massive and less fun and worse "build" as a gameplay experience, than the first one XD. But it's a good technical "tour de force" for the N64 (and without any Expansion Pack use).
Chrono Cross can be an excellent PSX game, but that is simply NOT a good sequel for Chrono Trigger. I really love CT, and Chrono Cross feels as a totally different franchise, and it has a very strange and disturbing sad and melancholic story I NEVER liked (yeah, CT has sad moments, but inside a major adventure with lots of emotional moments). I suppose many CT fans do not feel that game as the true sequel (i don't). Plus, the original "JRPG dream team" of the first one (with the creators of FF, DQ, and Akira Toriyama being one of its art designers) was NOT present in the second one. CC is just another excellent RPG game from Square in the PSX era... but it is NOT the PERFECT RPG/adventure game the first one was and still feels.
I disagree with Tekken 2. Was an important mile-stone in PSX history, one of the really important BIG games during the first 2 more-or-less weak years in the market for PSX (only a bunch of games like the first 2 Ridge Racers, Wipeout, Crash bandicoot 1, the original F1, Resident Evil 1 or Tekken 2 can be well remembered as true classics for PS1 before Tomb Raider 1 appeared in the late 1996. And Tekken 2 is CLEARLY (no doubts) one of them. Others like Toshinden and both Destruction Derby games were long forgotten, for example. I don't know if Twisted Metal deserves to be in that early list... maybe?
Yes, Tekken 3 was much more awaited and had an enormous success in 1998... but Tekken 2 is a real classic for PS1. I don't think it's that forgotten or not acclaimed anymore.
Vagrant Story problem is... it really never was "that important game" by the general public. IT'S a FANTASTIC GAME, no doubt. But was never a huge best-seller in the market or truly beloved by general public, because had lots of competition by then (2000) and was very eclipsed, even by the PS2 launch, already being done in Japan.
Virtua Fighter series (you forget the 3rd, very important in the arcades and long awaited port for the Saturn... finally cancelled around 1998, to be remede as a forgotten Dreamcast launch title (DoA 2 and Soul Calibur in DC were way better) were ABSOLUTELY INFLUENTIAL in the 3D fighting games, and even the 3D early games. The first one was the reason Sony bet for a 3D machine focused when they decided to make PS1, no joke: Was that impressive.
In Japan, Saturn in fact, sold better than PSX during the first year, especially the first Xmas, because people wanted that arcade game in it's home.
VF2, arcade and the Saturn port, was totally impressive, and the BEST fighting game you could get until mid-1996 (unless you were a huge fan of 2D fighting games of the Neo Geo, and prefered the insanely overdeveloped fighting sprite-based games, of course).
In that era, Capcom was continuosly relaunching new versions, ports and compilations of its, by then, OLD as fuck Street Fighter II, because they didn't have a clue of how to make a 3D fighting game (literally in their own words, years later). In fact, that very first 3D SF game, "Street Fighter EX", was developed by Arika, former Capcom workers.
When they finally decided to make SFIII, they could only make a 2D game with beautiful sprite graphics... and that was a HUGE failure in the market, because by 1997 people expected to get a Street Fighter 3D game after the Alpha/Zero ones. So failure it was, none console of that era even had a SFIII conversion, and only Dreamcast got one, years later. It was famous, though, that IGN64 statement about how they saw -can't remember where, or if they never say it- a working Street Fighter III port for the 64DD... So, who knows if that port was ever real (especially when Capcom basically neglected the N64 market... until it was too late) but I never thought it was the best machine to port a 2D fighting game, and much less a demanding one, as SFIII was in the sprite animation... in a 3D focused machine. Saturn was probably better prepared to get that port, and by then... 2D fighting games were a niche market in the home console market. That was the reason Street Fighter III was that forgotten during many years, after SFII was (and is) one of the most famous games in the history.
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