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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Which competitor is more responsible for the demise of Sega?

 

Who is most responsible for Sega’s switch to 3rd Party?

Microsoft 5 6.58%
 
Nintendo 6 7.89%
 
Sony 65 85.53%
 
Total:76
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Sony, as the announcement, and specifically the overhyping of the graphical capabilities of the PS2 (which were nowhere near that level they hyped it up to during the reveal) took out all the wind of the Dreamcast's sales, which was doing quite well until that point, even having supply issues back then. By the time people realized that the PS2 wasn't as powerful as it was hyped up to, it was already too late to save Sega as a console manufacturer.

This absolves SEGA of most of its responsibility for its own demise, which is, quite frankly, nonsense. No matter what the "hype" stated, SEGA is the leader of this collapse. Most posters here have nailed it! Mismanagement and being unprepared to take on more fierce competition is what did them in. In other words, they themselves were the biggest reason for their demise, not anecdote of "failed promises" from the PS2. 



                                                                                                                                                           

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Fei-Hung said:
sethnintendo said:

2) That is false narrative.  Both sides tried to screw each other in SNES CD deal.  Sony tried to get rights of all Nintendo IPs that were released on console.  Of course Nintendo would back out of deal if it meant losing rights to IPs.  Don't try to rewrite history.  

Not trying to rewrite history, that's genuinely the first time I've ever heard of it. Do you have like a StrafeFox video, article or anything so I can read up on it. Thanks :)

It was mainly over royalties Sony would get all that were produced on the CD format and Nintendo would only get money from hardware sales.   While they eventually renegotiated the deal it eventually fell apart.   Basically both sides were at fault.  There are some articles that simple portray Sony as victim but here are a few articles that go more in depth on what was happening on both sides of the deal.

https://kotaku.com/the-weird-history-of-the-super-nes-cd-rom-nintendos-mo-1828860861

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_NES_CD-ROM

https://www.trustedreviews.com/opinion/the-story-of-the-snes-playstation-2934807

So even I will admit that I was wrong considering Sony under original agreement wouldn't steal Nintendo IPs but basically Sony would get all the licensing fees for the Super Disc.  I would put the blame more on Nintendo for deal falling through but Sony wasn't innocent either.



Dante9 said:

I think if it had been only Nintendo and Sega, Sega could have recovered and there would have been room for them in the market as one of the big two. But Sony's beast was out of the cage and that was that.

What was out of the cage the PS1 first generation consoles overheating or the PS2 laser disc failures?  PS2 had so many failures that the 360 rrod was almost a comprise.



CGI-Quality said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Sony, as the announcement, and specifically the overhyping of the graphical capabilities of the PS2 (which were nowhere near that level they hyped it up to during the reveal) took out all the wind of the Dreamcast's sales, which was doing quite well until that point, even having supply issues back then. By the time people realized that the PS2 wasn't as powerful as it was hyped up to, it was already too late to save Sega as a console manufacturer.

This absolves SEGA of most of its responsibility for its own demise, which is, quite frankly, nonsense. No matter what the "hype" stated, SEGA is the leader of this collapse. Most posters here have nailed it! Mismanagement and being unprepared to take on more fierce competition is what did them in. In other words, they themselves were the biggest reason for their demise, not anecdote of "failed promises" from the PS2. 

I should have elaborated more on that, because it doesn't absolve Sega in the slightest. It's just that the Dreamcast was their last chance after all their mismanagement, and the loss of sales after the PS2 reveal meant that their business model was doomed, as the Dreamcast couldn't save them anymore.

Also, it's possible that Sega would have gone bust anyway, since the company was bleeding lots of money and the Dreamcast was sold at a loss, so if the software sales wouldn't have gone up quickly, they would have been doomed anyway, the Dreamcast would just have sold better.



rapsuperstar31 said:

While I think Sega made some huge mistakes, so did Nintendo with the N64, Gamecube, and Wii U and they survived. So I don't think Sega is ultimately completely to blame for their own downfall. Sega had a lot of momentum, I had quite a few friends that had the Genesis, when the Playstation came out I never heard anything about the Saturn among my friends. Sure I saw Panzer Dragon demos in stores and read a little bit about them in magazines, but the mid to late 90's all of my friends talked about in the world of video games was Sony and Nintendo. I believe Sony's arrival (or Nintendo's rejection of Sony resulting in them entering the market) did Sega in. I do remember a solid launch of the Dramcast when my friends talked about the system for a few months than those talked stopped pretty quickly.

I don't think Nintendo's failures are on the same footing. For one Nintendo always had successful handhelds to carry them. But more importantly: even the failing consoles (for the most part) were making profit for Nintendo. Nintendo had designed so conservatively, that even with comparatively low sales they could still turn a (albeit small) profit with their games. that is different compared to a console you bet your bank on.



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Fei-Hung said:
sethnintendo said:

2) That is false narrative.  Both sides tried to screw each other in SNES CD deal.  Sony tried to get rights of all Nintendo IPs that were released on console.  Of course Nintendo would back out of deal if it meant losing rights to IPs.  Don't try to rewrite history.  

Not trying to rewrite history, that's genuinely the first time I've ever heard of it. Do you have like a StrafeFox video, article or anything so I can read up on it. Thanks :)

"Under their agreement, Sony would develop and retain control over the Super Disc format, with Nintendo thus effectively ceding a large amount of control of software licensing to Sony. Further, Sony would also be the sole benefactor of licensing related to music and movies software that it had been aggressively pursuing as a secondary application."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_NES_CD-ROM



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Sega itself. PS competition was a factor, but Sega still was a strong second way in console gaming after the dominant Ninty way for what concerns SW, it was a bad HW strategy at the time of Saturn launch that started or accelerated its decline. Obviously Sony was very intelligent to exploit Sega internal problems and Ninty bossy relationship with 3rd parties to carve its place in the market, but both Sega and Ninty paved its way.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
CGI-Quality said:

This absolves SEGA of most of its responsibility for its own demise, which is, quite frankly, nonsense. No matter what the "hype" stated, SEGA is the leader of this collapse. Most posters here have nailed it! Mismanagement and being unprepared to take on more fierce competition is what did them in. In other words, they themselves were the biggest reason for their demise, not anecdote of "failed promises" from the PS2. 

I should have elaborated more on that, because it doesn't absolve Sega in the slightest. It's just that the Dreamcast was their last chance after all their mismanagement, and the loss of sales after the PS2 reveal meant that their business model was doomed, as the Dreamcast couldn't save them anymore.

Also, it's possible that Sega would have gone bust anyway, since the company was bleeding lots of money and the Dreamcast was sold at a loss, so if the software sales wouldn't have gone up quickly, they would have been doomed anyway, the Dreamcast would just have sold better.

They were doomed regardless. The downturn began with the Saturn and never recovered. 



                                                                                                                                                           

I’ve seen quite a few people claiming that the PS2 being a DVD player was a major factor in the success of the PS2 and the failure of the Dreamcast.

The DVD aspect of the PS2 definitely helped PlayStation get to 150 million units, but make no mistake, the PS2 was going to be a 100 million seller just like the PS1 without the add on.

The Dreamcast had a great name, great looking games, and a year head start, but Sega had barely managed to be competitive when they were just up against Nintendo. Adding another player in Sony was the nail in the coffin, especially a competitor that was coming off the runaway success of the best selling home console in history.



Dulfite said:

and before Microsoft replaces PlayStation as the main Nintendo rival in 7 years after the PS6 tanks out of the gate due to $80 games and no true competition to Gamepass.

You can keep dreaming