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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Which competitor is more responsible for the demise of Sega?

 

Who is most responsible for Sega’s switch to 3rd Party?

Microsoft 5 6.58%
 
Nintendo 6 7.89%
 
Sony 65 85.53%
 
Total:76
SegaHeart said:

I wish this thread would just stop talking about the demise of SEGA and talk about what will bring SEGA Ips to their glory again, Though I have no hope in Yakuza since Nagoshi joined Netease, SMilebit developers that made Jet Set Radio is gone, Panzer Dragoon Creator joined Tencent he'll never come back but with funding he'll make another Panzer Dragon Saga 98% metacritic under Tencent, and 3D sonic is not doing too good hope the new game surprises but keep expectations low. Yuji Naka the creator of NiGhts into Dreams left SEGA and made the terrible Wonderland game. So many Sega developers left It's mostly not looking good and It's only Atlus but they only have Persona and Shin Megami don't doesn't sell alot I think just 1 million, Sega is in deep stuff and Christian White the SOnic Mania developer left SEGA and is making his own game feel like a backstab. Atlus is a 2 franchise ip barely sustainable to SEGA need to acquire a better developer than atlus. Wish Capcom was still 150 million so Sega would be in better position.

Nothing to worry about. This thread will be buried in a few days. I’m surprised it isn’t already. 

I too felt bad when people talked about Sega in this way. I remember when I first saw madden displaying the power of Ps2, i instantly hated EA. I hated Sony for a long time. I loved Xbox because it was a spiritual successor to Dreamcast. Now I realize it’s not Sony’s fault that they were smarter at the business. Microsoft is the one that muscled in and took their seat away. Microsoft brought me lots of joy, but if they stayed out then Dreamcast could have fought on. 



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Chrkeller said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Bold: I would argue that the first 4 mainline PS are on par or even better than the first 4 FF. PS2 is also the first JRPG which has the main heroine died in the story way before the final battle.

I thought Phantasy Star IV was excellent, right up there with FF.  But PS III was awful.  Meanwhile, on the SNES, there was the likes of 4, 6, Trigger, etc.  

We are comparing the first 4 PS to the first 4 FF, why do you bring 6 and Trigger here?

I: PS > FF (the characters in PS are way better than the generic ones in FF)

II: PS > FF (PS II story is even better than IV, but IV gameplay > II)

III: FF > PS 

IV: PS > FF

So over all, the first 4 PS > the first 4 FF.



HoangNhatAnh said:
Chrkeller said:

I thought Phantasy Star IV was excellent, right up there with FF.  But PS III was awful.  Meanwhile, on the SNES, there was the likes of 4, 6, Trigger, etc.  

We are comparing the first 4 PS to the first 4 FF, why do you bring 6 and Trigger here?

I: PS > FF (the characters in PS are way better than the generic ones in FF)

II: PS > FF (PS II story is even better than IV, but IV gameplay > II)

III: FF > PS 

IV: PS > FF

So over all, the first 4 PS > the first 4 FF.

Because I didn't game much pre SNES/genesis, so can only speak about what I know.  I never played the Master system and didn't touch Final Fantasy until IV.  I can't disagree because I have no idea, minus PS IV versus FF IV....  FF IV all day long.  I loved both, but FF IV gets the nod for the characters.  Kain and Cecil were excellent.

Not that any of it matters.  The core point was Sega has been overrated for decades.  They never were Nintendo.  Perhaps the easiest example is 3D Sonic versus 3D Mario...  not even remotely close.  Plus Sega never had anything remotely close to Zelda and Metroid.  

Ultimately people are welcome to disagree, but there are very few Sega games that have aged well.  Meanwhile Link to the Past, Super Metroid and Super Mario World hold up great even today.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 08 April 2022

HoangNhatAnh said:

Bold: I would argue that the first 4 mainline PS are on par or even better than the first 4 FF. PS2 is also the first JRPG which has the main heroine died in the story way before the final battle.

I agree with this.  PS2 is a game that is lost in time, but it is a brilliant rpg if you can get into it.  The twist ending is like something out of the twilight zone.

Also, RPG's like Panzar Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III and Skies of Arcadia are arguably some of the greatest in the genre and can  even punch in the weight class of games like Earthbound, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy III in my opinion.  Sega was really strong when it came to RPG's and you were not getting short-changed on RPGs in any way if you bought any of the Sega consoles.  The same can't be said consoles like the N64 or the original XBox, though.

As has been said, yes I believe Sega's home console market demise is primarily the result of the Playstation with the final death stroke coming from the Playstation 2.  Honestly, the main reason why Sega found success was because gamers and developers were looking for an alternative to Nintendo's dominance.  Sega filled this void in the early 90's with something that wasn't perfect and they were never quite on Nintendo's level, but when Sony came along they were a powerhouse that just did all the right things.  I mean, Sony nearly decimated Nintendo's market share and so it's easy to see what they did to a company like Sega that wasn't even in Nintendo's league and mainly catered to the anti-Nintendo demographic that would be immediately attracted to a console like the Playstation.  It's a shame, because Sega really did bring something cool and unique to gaming.



Chrkeller said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

We are comparing the first 4 PS to the first 4 FF, why do you bring 6 and Trigger here?

I: PS > FF (the characters in PS are way better than the generic ones in FF)

II: PS > FF (PS II story is even better than IV, but IV gameplay > II)

III: FF > PS 

IV: PS > FF

So over all, the first 4 PS > the first 4 FF.

Because I didn't game much pre SNES/genesis, so can only speak about what I know.  I never played the Master system and didn't touch Final Fantasy until IV.  I can't disagree because I have no idea, minus PS IV versus FF IV....  FF IV all day long.  I loved both, but FF IV gets the nod for the characters.  Kain and Cecil were excellent.

Not that any of it matters.  The core point was Sega has been overrated for decades.  They never were Nintendo.  Perhaps the easiest example is 3D Sonic versus 3D Mario...  not even remotely close.  Plus Sega never had anything remotely close to Zelda and Metroid.  

Ultimately people are welcome to disagree, but there are very few Sega games that have aged well.  Meanwhile Link to the Past, Super Metroid and Super Mario World hold up great even today.  

PSII was on Genesis, the story and characters are better than PSIV, especially when the main heroine accepted her fate to help the protagonist won the impossible fight. 



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My personal favorite series from sega is shining force. Always felt it was an underrated series.



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Chrkeller said:

Just my honest 2 cents. Part of the problem is Sega's 'glory' days is grossly overrated. Sonic was never as good as Mario. Phantasy Star was nothing compared to Final Fantasy. Sega never had anything that competed with Metroid and Zelda. Sega had arcade games.... but the world has moved on from arcade style games.

I'd have to say that Sonic was not as good as 8-bit Mario.  However, 16-bit Sonic was definitely better than 16-bit Mario.  I liked Super Mario World when I first played it, but I also felt it was somewhat disappointing.  It didn't hold a candle to Mario 3, and I think they destroyed the difficulty in Super Mario World which is what disappointed me about the game the most. 

However, this isn't even the worst part.  The worst part is that Super Mario World was the only 16-bit Mario game.  Meanwhile the Genesis had 3 regular Sonic games, Sonic and Knuckles and Sonic CD.  They really, really delivered when it came to high quality platformers and that is what the market wanted at the time.  Nintendo's answer to Sonic wasn't Mario.  It was Donkey Kong Country.  I personally do not think the DKC games are nearly as good as either Mario or Sonic.

Also, you are right that Sega had awesome arcade games, however you are wrong that the world has moved on from arcade style games.  Here are some games that have been made fairly recently that could easily work in an arcade with some minor modifications:  Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Just Dance, Guitar Hero/Rock Band/any rhythm game, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Wii/Switch Sports, Splatoon, Flappy Bird, etc....  People still like arcade style games, but outside of Japan, the venue doesn't really exist like it used to, and Nintendo would rather make arcade style games for their consoles.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Chrkeller said:

Just my honest 2 cents. Part of the problem is Sega's 'glory' days is grossly overrated. Sonic was never as good as Mario. Phantasy Star was nothing compared to Final Fantasy. Sega never had anything that competed with Metroid and Zelda. Sega had arcade games.... but the world has moved on from arcade style games.

I'd have to say that Sonic was not as good as 8-bit Mario.  However, 16-bit Sonic was definitely better than 16-bit Mario.  I liked Super Mario World when I first played it, but I also felt it was somewhat disappointing.  It didn't hold a candle to Mario 3, and I think they destroyed the difficulty in Super Mario World which is what disappointed me about the game the most. 

However, this isn't even the worst part.  The worst part is that Super Mario World was the only 16-bit Mario game.  Meanwhile the Genesis had 3 regular Sonic games, Sonic and Knuckles and Sonic CD.  They really, really delivered when it came to high quality platformers and that is what the market wanted at the time.  Nintendo's answer to Sonic wasn't Mario.  It was Donkey Kong Country.  I personally do not think the DKC games are nearly as good as either Mario or Sonic.

Also, you are right that Sega had awesome arcade games, however you are wrong that the world has moved on from arcade style games.  Here are some games that have been made fairly recently that could easily work in an arcade with some minor modifications:  Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Just Dance, Guitar Hero/Rock Band/any rhythm game, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Wii/Switch Sports, Splatoon, Flappy Bird, etc....  People still like arcade style games, but outside of Japan, the venue doesn't really exist like it used to, and Nintendo would rather make arcade style games for their consoles.

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island??

I won't disagree that 16-bit Sonic was good...  but god awful transition to 3D.  Adventure is terrible compared to Mario 64 and Sunshine.  

Sure, but that is a very small list of arcade 'like' games compared to Elden, Zelda, Mario, Souls, God of War, Uncharted, Halo, Gears, Horizon, Tsushima, Final Fantasy, Tomb Raiber, etc, etc, etc.  



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