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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Who's better at implementing controller gimmicks, Nintendo or Sony?

Azzanation said:

I dont agree.

The X1 offered Haptic triggers and that controller is heavily used outside of the X1 eco system. Sure the Dualsense will offer a more refined version of it considered its almost a decade newer. However giving credit for its implementations should go to the X1 controller, back when people acted like they didn't care for active triggers to now it means everything in games.

Switch offered HD Rumble years before the Dualsense which is the exact same thing. And considering the popularity of the Switch, again credit should be given to Nintendo's implementation.

People didn't care about haptic triggers on the Xbox controller because it didn't push the medium forward like adaptive triggers or haptic feedback. Similar to the touchpad on the Dualshock 4 controller that no one cares to mention. That's why reviewers consistently praise good Dualsense implementation. How many reviews praise haptic triggers on Xbox controllers or HD rumble on the Switch? Or how about third party developers supporting those features compared to the Dualsense? That's not something you can gloss over if you want to discuss who popularized/modernized implementation of these features. 

Regardless of these "similar" features, Sony should get the bulk of credit for moving the current controller forward, since the Dualsense has both features that are much more refined, and it has strong third party support unlike HD rumble or haptic triggers. Its not one or the other when it comes to the Dualsense. Its the complete package that set a new standard for more immersive gaming that will have the industry following suit. 



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Doctor_MG said:

The HD rumble in the Switch is pretty much the exact same thing. So I disagree. As for popularization, it's not coincidence that Sony implemented this after Nintendo. You're right that the triggers are different though

Disagree. 

The Dualsense has a lot of third party support compared to the HD rumble on the Switch. It's one of the few controllers that gets consistent praise from reviewers for its implementation. Nintendo might have been first with the HD rumble, but the industry didn't support it or rave about it like they do with the Dualsense, which should be factored in when considering who popularized what. 



PotentHerbs said:

Disagree. 

The Dualsense has a lot of third party support compared to the HD rumble on the Switch. It's one of the few controllers that gets consistent praise from reviewers for its implementation. Nintendo might have been first with the HD rumble, but the industry didn't support it or rave about it like they do with the Dualsense, which should be factored in when considering who popularized what. 

The Joycons HD-Rumble was also positively regarded and multiple third parties used it. For example, Dragon Quest Warriors 2 used it to simulate the squish of a slime. The lock picking in Skyrim was actually much easier because of the HD-rumble. Heck, if I remember correctly there was even one developer who implemented it in a game for certain...ahem...jiggle physics. Games like Hollow Knight use it to give you indications of your health. Fast RMX and other racing games use it to simulate wind and speed. 

Nintendo innovated on a controller and how it could be used to improve games. Sony improved on the format, sure, but it was Nintendo's innovation and Sony's improvement is really just a factor of being a bigger controller (allowing for a bigger mass that moves up and down). Sony doesn't get credit for this one. Especially since Switch came out just three years before the PS5 came out. That's definitely enough time to influence and test new haptic feedback methods without it being so far back that there isn't a direct influential link between one and the other. 



Doctor_MG said:
PotentHerbs said:

Disagree. 

The Dualsense has a lot of third party support compared to the HD rumble on the Switch. It's one of the few controllers that gets consistent praise from reviewers for its implementation. Nintendo might have been first with the HD rumble, but the industry didn't support it or rave about it like they do with the Dualsense, which should be factored in when considering who popularized what. 

The Joycons HD-Rumble was also positively regarded and multiple third parties used it. For example, Dragon Quest Warriors 2 used it to simulate the squish of a slime. The lock picking in Skyrim was actually much easier because of the HD-rumble. Heck, if I remember correctly there was even one developer who implemented it in a game for certain...ahem...jiggle physics. Games like Hollow Knight use it to give you indications of your health. Fast RMX and other racing games use it to simulate wind and speed. 

Nintendo innovated on a controller and how it could be used to improve games. Sony improved on the format, sure, but it was Nintendo's innovation and Sony's improvement is really just a factor of being a bigger controller (allowing for a bigger mass that moves up and down). Sony doesn't get credit for this one. Especially since Switch came out just three years before the PS5 came out. That's definitely enough time to influence and test new haptic feedback methods without it being so far back that there isn't a direct influential link between one and the other. 

This is more often the case for Sony than the otherway around. Sony copies and improves it (dual analog and dual rumble)  it or they do a half assed job (touch pad instead of screen and sixaxis)



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Doctor_MG said:

You are misunderstanding, what is happening in the triggers of the Xbox One controllers is vibration. The adaptive triggers have nothing to do with vibration. It's creating tension, not vibration. 

Edit: Just for further clarification, it isn't using haptic feedback to create tension. It is creating tension through an entirely different means. This is more an evolution of analog triggers than anything. 

I am not referring to the Adaptive triggers in the Dualsense, i am referring to the haptics in the Dualsense, the tech that vibrates the controller. Sure Sony added Adaptive triggers where it also includes Tension however the Haptic rumble was pushed by the X1 controller where it uses twin rumble motors to create the immersion of driving on rough surfaces or pulling a trigger on a gun where each trigger offers separate responses etc. This is something the Dualsense also does + more years after. 

PotentHerbs said:

People didn't care about haptic triggers on the Xbox controller because it didn't push the medium forward like adaptive triggers or haptic feedback. Similar to the touchpad on the Dualshock 4 controller that no one cares to mention. That's why reviewers consistently praise good Dualsense implementation. How many reviews praise haptic triggers on Xbox controllers or HD rumble on the Switch? Or how about third party developers supporting those features compared to the Dualsense? That's not something you can gloss over if you want to discuss who popularized/modernized implementation of these features. 

Regardless of these "similar" features, Sony should get the bulk of credit for moving the current controller forward, since the Dualsense has both features that are much more refined, and it has strong third party support unlike HD rumble or haptic triggers. Its not one or the other when it comes to the Dualsense. Its the complete package that set a new standard for more immersive gaming that will have the industry following suit. 

But Sony didn't push the controller forward, it is doing exactly what Nintendo did years before they did it. Why should Sony get the credit? Because a few games use the DS? What about the few games on Switch which used HD Rumble? what about all the positive reviews HD Rumble received? If you give credit to Sony in this case, you might as well try to give Credit for the PS Move over the Wii Remotes. Sony improved upon the idea and pushed it into VR gaming etc but Nintendo also did it first and more importantly, Nintendo did it right first.



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Doctor_MG said:

The Joycons HD-Rumble was also positively regarded and multiple third parties used it. For example, Dragon Quest Warriors 2 used it to simulate the squish of a slime. The lock picking in Skyrim was actually much easier because of the HD-rumble. Heck, if I remember correctly there was even one developer who implemented it in a game for certain...ahem...jiggle physics. Games like Hollow Knight use it to give you indications of your health. Fast RMX and other racing games use it to simulate wind and speed. 

Nintendo innovated on a controller and how it could be used to improve games. Sony improved on the format, sure, but it was Nintendo's innovation and Sony's improvement is really just a factor of being a bigger controller (allowing for a bigger mass that moves up and down). Sony doesn't get credit for this one. Especially since Switch came out just three years before the PS5 came out. That's definitely enough time to influence and test new haptic feedback methods without it being so far back that there isn't a direct influential link between one and the other. 

I wouldn't put the praise the Joycons received on the same level as the Dualsense. Keep in mind the haptic feedback, adaptive triggers, and 3D audio, have been positively regarded for their implementation in multiple reviews, while HD Rumble is the only aspect of the Joycons that would be praised. There is a lot more to take away with the Dualsense, either as a critic or a consumer, when it comes to experiencing the functionality of each controller. When both controller features are implemented well, the Dualsense is the better showcase, as it pushes the more immersive experience. This in turn leaves a better impression on the mass audience and reinforces the idea that Sony revolutionized modern controllers in pop culture. 

I say Sony gets the credit on this for offering the full package. Saying the Dualsense improves on the format is underselling it. The Dualsense has essentially laid the blueprint for more immersive controllers that don't deviate from traditional game design. Most importantly, it enhances the way to play games without feeling "gimmicky" or forced, a criticism that was levied against the Dualshock's touchpad, and a concern that many had prior to the launch of the PS5. It has strong third party support and functionality within different genres like NBA2K, COD, or GT7, creating a more flexible and distinct feel to each game that is unrivaled by the Joycon. 



Azzanation said:

But Sony didn't push the controller forward, it is doing exactly what Nintendo did years before they did it. Why should Sony get the credit? Because a few games use the DS? What about the few games on Switch which used HD Rumble? what about all the positive reviews HD Rumble received? If you give credit to Sony in this case, you might as well try to give Credit for the PS Move over the Wii Remotes. Sony improved upon the idea and pushed it into VR gaming etc but Nintendo also did it first and more importantly, Nintendo did it right first.

Would you give Sony credit for pushing gaming subscriptions forward with PS Now? How about giving Sony credit for popularizing BR games with MAG? Or perhaps giving Sony credit for the metaverse with PS Home? Maybe we should give Sony credit for AAA games being bigger and more ambitious because they pushed Blu-ray on the industry, and without the increased GB space, games would have been limited in scope.

They did it first in all these instances yet no one will give Sony credit for popularizing any of them except for Blu-ray. It's the same reason Sony gets credit with the Dualsense, because like Fortnite did to the multiplayer space, the Dualsense improved and revolutionized an existing formula, and popularized new controls within the industry and towards the mass audience. Also, saying only a few games use Dualsense features is massively underselling how many games use it. Games that don't have any Dualsense functionality are in the minority. 



Nintendo obviously.



PotentHerbs said:

I wouldn't put the praise the Joycons received on the same level as the Dualsense. Keep in mind the haptic feedback, adaptive triggers, and 3D audio, have been positively regarded for their implementation in multiple reviews, while HD Rumble is the only aspect of the Joycons that would be praised. There is a lot more to take away with the Dualsense, either as a critic or a consumer, when it comes to experiencing the functionality of each controller. When both controller features are implemented well, the Dualsense is the better showcase, as it pushes the more immersive experience. This in turn leaves a better impression on the mass audience and reinforces the idea that Sony revolutionized modern controllers in pop culture. 

I say Sony gets the credit on this for offering the full package. Saying the Dualsense improves on the format is underselling it. The Dualsense has essentially laid the blueprint for more immersive controllers that don't deviate from traditional game design. Most importantly, it enhances the way to play games without feeling "gimmicky" or forced, a criticism that was levied against the Dualshock's touchpad, and a concern that many had prior to the launch of the PS5. It has strong third party support and functionality within different genres like NBA2K, COD, or GT7, creating a more flexible and distinct feel to each game that is unrivaled by the Joycon. 

I think giving Sony the credit for implementing advanced haptic feedback because the Dualsense and PS5 has other features (adaptive triggers, Tempest) is misguided. That's tantamount to saying that the N64 shouldn't be praised for their analog controller because it didn't have a disk drive. 

But I don't think we are going to agree here, so I'm going to leave it at that. 



PotentHerbs said:
Azzanation said:

But Sony didn't push the controller forward, it is doing exactly what Nintendo did years before they did it. Why should Sony get the credit? Because a few games use the DS? What about the few games on Switch which used HD Rumble? what about all the positive reviews HD Rumble received? If you give credit to Sony in this case, you might as well try to give Credit for the PS Move over the Wii Remotes. Sony improved upon the idea and pushed it into VR gaming etc but Nintendo also did it first and more importantly, Nintendo did it right first.

Would you give Sony credit for pushing gaming subscriptions forward with PS Now? How about giving Sony credit for popularizing BR games with MAG? Or perhaps giving Sony credit for the metaverse with PS Home? Maybe we should give Sony credit for AAA games being bigger and more ambitious because they pushed Blu-ray on the industry, and without the increased GB space, games would have been limited in scope.

They did it first in all these instances yet no one will give Sony credit for popularizing any of them except for Blu-ray. It's the same reason Sony gets credit with the Dualsense, because like Fortnite did to the multiplayer space, the Dualsense improved and revolutionized an existing formula, and popularized new controls within the industry and towards the mass audience. Also, saying only a few games use Dualsense features is massively underselling how many games use it. Games that don't have any Dualsense functionality are in the minority. 

Its not who does it first, its who does it right. In this case, Nintendo hit the nail on the head with HD Rumble and because they did it right, Sony usually follow shortly after. Analog Sticks, Rumble, Motion etc. Sony would have not adopted an accessory that wasnt successful, their history is very rich with following others and advancing the tech rather than creating the tech.

All your previous examples of what Sony did first doesnt add anything to the debate because those innovations werent done right, they were just done.