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Forums - Politics Discussion - A reactionary post, I guess.

BasilZero said:

I also want to visit the Grand Canyon and go to Disney World - two things I never got to do before despite living in Texas/US for over 30 years lol.

Oh man I travelled all the way from Finland to see it and it was an unbelieveable sight to behold.

And even better, just when I though nothing's ever going to get more epic than this I saw a chipmunk!

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KiigelHeart said:
BasilZero said:

I also want to visit the Grand Canyon and go to Disney World - two things I never got to do before despite living in Texas/US for over 30 years lol.

Oh man I travelled all the way from Finland to see it and it was an unbelieveable sight to behold.

And even better, just when I though nothing's ever going to get more epic than this I saw a chipmunk!

I'll be there in 4 months.

KiigelHeart said:
BasilZero said:

I also want to visit the Grand Canyon and go to Disney World - two things I never got to do before despite living in Texas/US for over 30 years lol.

Oh man I travelled all the way from Finland to see it and it was an unbelieveable sight to behold.

And even better, just when I though nothing's ever going to get more epic than this I saw a chipmunk!

I saw it as a kid once. It's so vast it doesn't look real. Crazy beautiful!

I haven't posted on this site for a while, though I check-in here regularly. But I honestly have to provide my view point which counters that of the OP. But before I begin, I will say that I am sorry for OP due to the pressures that the current situation is placing on his/her life. I do agree that it is a trying situation, for some more than others. With that said though, I will start my critique.

First of all, I will talk about my views regarding mask mandates. I do not understand how requiring the public to wear masks is an over-reach. It is similar to the expectations to wear at least some level of clothing (shirt, underwear, etc), when we are out in public. Certainly, even in the pre-pandemic days, if you walked in most public spaces without basic levels of garments you would be charged in most placed. I would argue that the requirement to wear a mask during a pandemic makes more sense than the rule to not be naked outside in a regular situation. Masks (when used correctly) can help reduce the spread of the virus. This has more of an effect on normality than you would think. Let's for example say a new variant is circulating, by taking measures to reduce/slow the transmissibility of that variant, hospitals will not suddenly become overwhelmed with an influx patients that will result in human and material shortages (even a variant like omicron, which is milder, can have a devastating impact on healthcare resources because it is more transmissible and will result in a large number of hospitalizations happening at one time if left unchecked). Similarly, when you look at the supply chain, implementing no measures to contain the virus means that individuals working at a certain workplace with one another will infect one another at the same time which will disrupt that workplace and potentially add additional stress on the supply chain. Just wearing a mask and following other basic guidelines to reduce transmissibility does more to sustain a level of normality.

Now let's talk about the Freedom Convoy. As a Canadian, I can certainly say that I do not support that movement. I certainly do not speak for everyone else, but neither do they. Pandemic mandates in Canada is a very polarizing topic, and there are strong opinions on both sides (with support for both sides roughly polling in at around 50%-50%); these "for the people" or "populist" movements are not representative of a clear majority view. It is important to point out that opinion regarding these protests are split even among those in the trucking industry itself. I do believe that their right to peaceful protest ought to be respected. However, they do not have the right to block roads, block access to emergency services, honk horns in residential neighbourhoods, harass people choosing to follow health protocols, etc. In addition, there have been bad actors among some of these protestors who have displayed hate filled symbols, they are certainly not the majority but they are clinging onto these protests to spread their political agenda. This is not unusual for any protest movement, as the far-left and far-right will cling onto movements where they might find sympathetic recruits for their causes. Certainly based on much polling, the group that has broadly latched themselves onto this particular movement (and again they are not the majority, but they are there; similar to how aspects of the far-left latched itself onto, say, BLM protests). It is important to point out those protesting with confederate flags, swatikas, Trump signs because they are there for reasons beyond protesting mandates, again they are not the majority but their attempts to hijack these protests should certainly be highlighted. I will also add that those blocking bridges are doing more harm to your goal of returning to normal, as that will further disrupt the supply chain (more so than not having a small minority of truckers not cross the border). I will say the benefit of the protest is to show the government that there are those that are not in favour of these measures, whose lives have been disrupted, and that perhaps a more moderate road needs to be plotted as we live with this virus; and while I do not support the bulk message of what these protesters want, I do believe that the government should be put on notice about these matters.

One point I will mention that is a bit confusing. You have stated that you are against "open borders" (it should be noted that the US does not have an open borders policy, just two parties posing about one being tougher or slightly more lax; but that is separate discussion), which indicates that there should be a level of respect for another country's rules. Yet you are supporting a movement whose goal is to have truckers cross into another country and not follow their rules (which happens to be vaccine mandates). Similarly, this is a movement that is getting significant funding from outside (lots of money is coming in from the US), which is certainly not in keeping with maintaining sovereignty.

I also question how you can hate all news media but Fox News. In essence, you are choosing the right-wing mainstream media because they are likely saying things that you want to hear, while ignoring centrist or left-wing mainstream outlets (and I certainly do not believe that there is a apolitical news outlet).

I will also question your return to "normality", because you are mentioning things that are extending beyond pandemic mandates. Your return to normality includes ending the call on the left to "defunding the police and ending bail". People who are making these calls are doing so because of an increasingly over militarized police which is unreasonably harsh on everyone but particularly harsh on certain minority communities; certainly the solution will not be end policing, and most agree on that, but reforms will be necessary. As a supporter of a so-called freedom convoy, do their complaints not matter? Similarly, bail reform is being called for because it results in coercive and unbalanced punitive measures on those that are less well off. Do their freedoms to a blind justice system not matter? It seems your return to normality involves sweeping the issues these groups have with their freedom under the rug.

Finally, Biden's polling numbers have very little to do with the freedom convoy or a particular direction your country wants to go in regarding mandates. Certainly those that supported him but were also in favour of mandates being lifted are likely going to disapprove, but that is just one group with grievances. I think a major issue is the tribal nature of politics in the US, which has resulted in deep polarizations. There are those that voted for moderation, and they might believe Biden has now gone too far to the left. There are those that voted for FDR-like New Deal presidency that are now disappointed. I frankly don't think you can get a President that will poll in the same manner as the earlier ones in the post-WWII period (barring slight jumps that they might experience right after an elections, ie the honeymoon phase, and during the early parts of a national emergency; and even there I expect the jumps to be less pronounced due to hardened polarization).

I am just glad I am here in a different country. Don't have to deal with any of that nonsense anymore. Instead I get to not understand a single thing in Japan. Ignorance is bliss. Still I will have to go back sometime, I hope it is safe by then.

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Joe Biden and the Dems are doing jack all a lot of times for the pandemic. This pandemic would've been way more under control if the U.S. had
-paid sick leave
-universal health care
-free at the point of service COVID-19 tests
-more hospital beds
-financial incentives to get the COVID-19 vaccine and booster
Because the US has none of this, the numbers continue to be high.
But you seriously think the US has an open borders experiment? Joe Biden's border policy is very similar to Donald Trump's. Acting like Dems are for open borders is a far-right talking point and lie. Also, the defunding the police concept is barely happening. The movement is meant more to redirect some funds of the police, and it's barely happening.

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So... we don't need Covid restrictions... yet we're also going to criticize states for easing Covid restrictions. O_o... Alright then. If new data was coming out, then one would expect mandates to be dropped at similar times. But damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What is not included in this post is a scientific reason why it is a good time to end mask mandates. Just, that it's not completely comfortable, and you don't like them. I remember when 3,000 or so people died on 9/11. We changed air travel restrictions completely. I can't go into the Magic fucking Kingdom without a bag search and metal detector. 3,000 people died yesterday from Covid. But oh noes we're not going to put cloth on our face. AND ARE YOU TELLING ME I HAVE TO GO TO THE PHARMACY AND GET A SHOT THREE TIMES?! JUST TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM SOMETHING THAT HASN'T EVEN KILLED SIX MILLION PEOPLE YET?! THIS IS MADNESS!

Fun fact. When the shark attacks that inspired the movie Jaws happened, support for President Wilson in the area affected dropped sharply. Because that's what people do. When they're frustrated, they blame whoever is in charge, whether or not it's actually their fault. Of course, I'm not saying it isn't, but if it is, there's no reason to believe that in the OP.

So, then you turn into Fox News who says you're right to be pissed off, and here are some other things to be pissed off about. And then... this, is the end result. A little over a year ago, the Republican party literally tried to overthrow Democracy. And they are still in support of that (or at least too big of pussies to call it what it was). They do not think you should have control over your uterus. If they had their way, you wouldn't be able to choose the gender of your partner. But, at least they'll let your face be comfy womfy while thousands of people die every day.

There is not a shred of logic or rationality to be found here. Pure emotional reasoning. Angry=/=justified.

It was supposed to be a parody... But actually kind of accurate.

Also... it's a fucking mask. You're in Texas. I'm in New York. Our policies are far worse than yours. I ride mass transit to in person school with tons of people in crammed trains. I eat lunch at restaurants with my classmates. I can go to the movies. I go to the gym regularly. I literally can't think of anything I couldn't do if I wanted to do. I just have to put a piece of fabric over my face at times. We're closing on a million deaths, and this is somehow a bridge too far. 

Edit: Since the subject of bail came up, I invite anyone who thinks bail reform is a bad thing to go to It's obviously a biased source, but it contains litigation. Look at the court cases, and the scenarious where bail has been used basically as extortion for minor offenses like driving without registration. It's fucking gross beyond belief. If the bail system was functioning as intended, there would be no need for reform. Unfortunately, it has been used in many localities to extort money from those least able to pay, without informing them of their rights, or providing them with any legal counsel. Bail reform is not because people are being big ol' softees who want to let violent criminals rape your children, it's because the people in charge have turned it into a for-profit enterprise, and that municipalities are being sued and losing a fuck ton of money. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 11 February 2022

I am altering the science, pray I don't alter it any further.

Jumpin said:

I think I recall Canada being a particularly strict country when it came to protests. Didn’t they send in their military to destroy the native North American protests? I’m assuming they won’t have double standards against these guys.

Right, Canadian politicians wouldn't have double standards like US politicians would, now would they? I seem to remember several states passing laws allowing people to run over protesters blocking roads, and some of the same people supporting the Freedom Convoy now blithely saying "All lives splatter" in 2020. 

the-pi-guy said:

>I mean let's take this sudden wave of blue states deciding to lift masking requirements. In just the last three days, California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Delaware (yep, President Biden's home state!), New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island have all suddenly announced at least some lifting of masking requirements, with even more likely on the way. Is it just a coincidence that this has happened all at once in the same week -- have blue state governors just discovered polling shifts or something -- or could it be that that bridge to Detroit from Canada is now being blocked by the Freedom Convoy and there's a certain desire on the part of the party currently governing our country (apparently save for the Biden Administration itself!) to, you know, do what's possible to end that situation as quickly as possible and avoid the phenom being fully replicated Stateside?

It might have something to do with covid cases being 1/6th of what they were a few weeks ago, and Dr. Fauci saying we're likely past the pandemic stage.  

And I'm sorry but I don't consider having to wear a mask when going out as some giant intrusion on freedom. There are far more important things I'm concerned about.

Frankly I'm tired of people acting like the vaccine (that has been scientifically proven to be far, far safer than the alternative across the board) and having to wear masks is some horrible burden that we should be fighting against. And I'm tired of people who don't know the first thing about the immune system thinking they understand science and policy better than immunologists that have been spent 20+ years studying the immune system.  

How dare the government cause me a minor inconvenience for trying to slow something down that has killed close to a million Americans.