By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox is becoming the unsung hero of this generation

I wouldn't say unsung. My twitter feed is filled with Xbox news and praise everyday, so its definitely not unsung in core gaming circles. I think it will just take a while to trickle down to the general public. What MS does well is not valued as much as what Sony and Nintendo do well. Its a quality of life thing that is great for owners of the platform but not as visible/important to the average gamer as generation defining experiences which I think create more long lasting headlines and word of mouth. Thats why Sony/Nintendo are falling a bit on the services side of things but still remain by far the more demanded platforms.

I mean since 2020 Playstation would of had these huge flagship games which generate excitement and conversation in the industry:
Dreams (despite flopping), Final Fantasy VIIR, The Last of US 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Personal 5 R, Miles Morales, Demons Souls Remake, Astro's Playground, Returnals and soon Ratchet and Clank.

Xbox: Gears Tactics, Grounded. Flight Simulator (coming soon)

So MS is really putting all of this work into its OS/Services but it takes a long time for that to really reap reward. People's primary concern remains where can they play the best games.



Around the Network
shikamaru317 said:
SKMBlake said:

Actually, Nintendo made profits on the Wii U hardware sales (cause Nintendo never sell at loss), unlike the Xbox One hardware where it was sold at a loss, during pretty much its entire life

Where are you getting that notion from? I remember IHS did a hardware cost analysis of Xbox One

This IHS nonsense has been peddled for years now so here is, once again, an approximate rundown of the Kinect2:

1. Development costs, including acquiring software/hardware companies: Probably crude estimate $400M, ToF chip being the main culprit.

2. Kinect2 contains three zero-redundancy chips, an RGBI chip, an extremely performant ToF chip, and a complex controller/preprocessor chip. These chips cost at least $60-80 to manufacture (less capable ToF chips cost around $250-$500 at the time).

3. How many Kinects2 were actually manufactured, less than 15mio? That means every Kinect2 was additionally hammered with around $30 non-recoupable development costs.

4. The rest of Kinect2 was not cheap hardware either, this was an outstanding product in every way.

In the end, it is inexpliccable how a company like IHS can get to $75 if they wanted to be taken seriously. I think there was a Reddit forum thread where one of the developers mentioned Kinect2 actually had similar costs than the console itself. Probably an exxageration but not by far.

All things considered, I'd not be surprised if the cost of each Kinect2 actually sold was anywhere above the $200 range. So when MS dropped Kinect2 and stopped production of it, massive savings occured (depending on applicable manufacturing contracts for it, supermassive savings).

Now, at least in Euroland, XBoxOne saw a massive price drop after about two years. There wasn't a week when you couldn't buy a box for E199-229 (final price, that included taxes and store margins which are NOT zero in Euroland). Towards the end, ridiculous price drops to E99 happened during holiday seasons.

So SKMBlake's conclusion

unlike the Xbox One hardware where it was sold at a loss, during pretty much its entire life

pretty much reflected and still reflects reality in Euroland.



drkohler said:
SvennoJ said:

Problem with XBox is, you can play all the exclusives on PC, with fewer restrictions (free online) ..

This pretty much saves MS from another sales fiasco like the previous gen was. With current PC graphics card prices, even entry-level gaming PCs cost (at least) twice as much as a SeriesX. We are just a few weeks into this generation of consoles and the sales figures already fell to 2:1. Without the semiconductor shortages, it would likely already be another bloodbath for MS.

smroadkill15 said:
SvennoJ said:

Unsung is a poor choice of words as, well at least on Eurogamer and here, it gets sung high praise on a daily basis :p It's not overlooked by consumers either as it's just as sold out here as the ps5 is, can't get either. (You can get the little one online, not that much interested in the gimped one by early adopters)

Problem with XBox is, you can play all the exclusives on PC, with fewer restrictions (free online) and more options. So why buy a box if you can put that money towards upgrading your pc or spend a bit more on a gaming laptop. Assuming most people have a pc or laptop. Buying a XBox feels redundant.

Xbox still doesn't have the same mindshare as the only 2 consoles regardless of it selling out. Things may change when the games start dropping, but for now that's not the case. 

I don't think releasing games on PC day one has or will have that much of a impact on console sales. On a gaming enthusiast sites like this, we see that opinion a lot, but outside of that, the average consumer doesn't care about PC gaming, and only uses their PC for every day use like work. Most consumers are not willing to spend the upfront cost to get something with similar specs as what current gen offers. Even if Sony started releasing their games day 1 on PC, I doubt it would change much. 

It did have an effect on me and most consumers are also fine without the latest hardware specs. I'm still perfectly happy with a 1060, don't care about 4K output. Yet somehow the Series S feels like a dud to me and I rather play on my laptop than get a box that's just the same (digital games only).

A PC or laptop with similar capabilities of the Series S isn't that expensive (a lot more than the Series S sure) and you can do a lot more with it. But true, nowadays most younger people use their phone for everyday 'computing' needs. xCloud could be what gets in Series X sales' way. I doubt it though. For now sales are fine, everything is sold out.

Another thing nowadays is online learning. My kids can use new laptops, they can (and are) gaming on those as well. So no incentive to give them a console for Christmas. New laptop, play on that.



smroadkill15 said:
SvennoJ said:

Unsung is a poor choice of words as, well at least on Eurogamer and here, it gets sung high praise on a daily basis :p It's not overlooked by consumers either as it's just as sold out here as the ps5 is, can't get either. (You can get the little one online, not that much interested in the gimped one by early adopters)

Problem with XBox is, you can play all the exclusives on PC, with fewer restrictions (free online) and more options. So why buy a box if you can put that money towards upgrading your pc or spend a bit more on a gaming laptop. Assuming most people have a pc or laptop. Buying a XBox feels redundant.

Xbox still doesn't have the same mindshare as the only 2 consoles regardless of it selling out. Things may change when the games start dropping, but for now that's not the case. 

I don't think releasing games on PC day one has or will have that much of a impact on console sales. On a gaming enthusiast sites like this, we see that opinion a lot, but outside of that, the average consumer doesn't care about PC gaming, and only uses their PC for every day use like work. Most consumers are not willing to spend the upfront cost to get something with similar specs as what current gen offers. Even if Sony started releasing their games day 1 on PC, I doubt it would change much. 

PC gaming is the main form of gaming for the hardcore crowd in many countries. Countries like the US and Japan love consoles disproportionately compared to other countries. So while the average consumer in the US/Japan might not care much about PC gaming, I think the average consumer worldwide does care about PC gaming.



zero129 said:

MS really are ticking all the right boxes with the pro consumer choices they are making this gen. Makes me want to pick up an Series X for the sitting room even with owning a gaming PC with an RTX3060TI id well get my worth out of it since my Game-pass ultimate sub will work on both it would also make the sub worth it more since id be using it more. Plus i already own a Series S/X controller for my PC so i wouldnt need to buy an extra controller to play with my kids.
So for people saying the is no value in a Series S/X console for someone who owns a PC thats not always the case as i see lots of value.

And i have friends and family who will not pick a PC over a console at all even if they was cheaper as they see it as being too "Complicated". And technically they are right.
I mean imagine known nothing about PC's and trying to figure out how to play games on it without someone telling you how or you reading up about it Sure many of us figured it out on our own. But not many casual people want that hassle. With a console they read up on nothing they just know they plug it in and pop their game in and download.
And why all a sudden has the argument reversed. At one stage the argument console gamers would make was no one would game or pick a PC anyways over a console even if all the games was on it. Now the argument is if all games are on PC no one will want a console...

My opinion about PC gaming changed over the past couple years. Perhaps it's been long enough ago that all the (tech) problems I had with PC have faded in my memories. Not that there aren't still problems, yesterday I had to disband our MS family nonsense, throw the kids out, so I could make some changes to the firewall on their laptops so they can play together in LAN in Minecraft. Yep for the casual, it is still a hassle.

What else changed is that my kids are older, up later, so the tvs are also more in use. Gaming laptops have gotten better, so now I play on my laptop while watching/listening along with the tv. And the more I use my laptop, the less I'm interested in playing on console. Couple days ago I turned the ps4 on again, first a system update, slow process with multiple restarts. Then an update for Beat Saber, installing a music pack I don't want to unlock anyway then finally I can play while slowly updating GT Sport (takes 35+ minutes). I didn't get around to playing GT Sport.... time up.

Some games are just better on TV though, large screen, 5.1 surround, dim the lights, no distractions. (pc always a forum, mail, etc one alt-tab away) But the time for that is limited, late at night, when I'm usually tired and just want to watch some netflix before going to sleep. Hence a gaming laptop with games that you can pause at any time, much more convenient nowadays.

The Series X costs quite a bit here. I rather put that towards my next gaming laptop. PS5 has the exclusive (dis)advantage and psvr 2 coming. Hence XBox is not ticking all the right boxes for me. It's missing the VR box. Even if Sony had all exclusives on PC, it's PSVR 2 I'm looking forward to. Sure a PC headset would work too, but I just want it to work. I'm fine playing FS2020 at 20fps on a screen, but no stuttering and messing with settings in VR please.



Around the Network
SvennoJ said:
zero129 said:

MS really are ticking all the right boxes with the pro consumer choices they are making this gen. Makes me want to pick up an Series X for the sitting room even with owning a gaming PC with an RTX3060TI id well get my worth out of it since my Game-pass ultimate sub will work on both it would also make the sub worth it more since id be using it more. Plus i already own a Series S/X controller for my PC so i wouldnt need to buy an extra controller to play with my kids.
So for people saying the is no value in a Series S/X console for someone who owns a PC thats not always the case as i see lots of value.

And i have friends and family who will not pick a PC over a console at all even if they was cheaper as they see it as being too "Complicated". And technically they are right.
I mean imagine known nothing about PC's and trying to figure out how to play games on it without someone telling you how or you reading up about it Sure many of us figured it out on our own. But not many casual people want that hassle. With a console they read up on nothing they just know they plug it in and pop their game in and download.
And why all a sudden has the argument reversed. At one stage the argument console gamers would make was no one would game or pick a PC anyways over a console even if all the games was on it. Now the argument is if all games are on PC no one will want a console...

My opinion about PC gaming changed over the past couple years. Perhaps it's been long enough ago that all the (tech) problems I had with PC have faded in my memories. Not that there aren't still problems, yesterday I had to disband our MS family nonsense, throw the kids out, so I could make some changes to the firewall on their laptops so they can play together in LAN in Minecraft. Yep for the casual, it is still a hassle.

What else changed is that my kids are older, up later, so the tvs are also more in use. Gaming laptops have gotten better, so now I play on my laptop while watching/listening along with the tv. And the more I use my laptop, the less I'm interested in playing on console. Couple days ago I turned the ps4 on again, first a system update, slow process with multiple restarts. Then an update for Beat Saber, installing a music pack I don't want to unlock anyway then finally I can play while slowly updating GT Sport (takes 35+ minutes). I didn't get around to playing GT Sport.... time up.

Some games are just better on TV though, large screen, 5.1 surround, dim the lights, no distractions. (pc always a forum, mail, etc one alt-tab away) But the time for that is limited, late at night, when I'm usually tired and just want to watch some netflix before going to sleep. Hence a gaming laptop with games that you can pause at any time, much more convenient nowadays.

The Series X costs quite a bit here. I rather put that towards my next gaming laptop. PS5 has the exclusive (dis)advantage and psvr 2 coming. Hence XBox is not ticking all the right boxes for me. It's missing the VR box. Even if Sony had all exclusives on PC, it's PSVR 2 I'm looking forward to. Sure a PC headset would work too, but I just want it to work. I'm fine playing FS2020 at 20fps on a screen, but no stuttering and messing with settings in VR please.

I have to laugh because the reasons that I've moved back to consoles and away from PCs is pretty much the same as the reasons you went back to PCs.  Don't even get me started on the updates on PC.  I have to keep Windows, video drivers, sound drivers, and peripheral drivers all up to date, each of which require many minutes to update, and many of which require a reboot of the PC, which itself takes at least 5 minutes to reboot.  This doesn't even mention keeping the games themselves updated as well.  And any of these updates makes the PC basically useless for gaming while they're being done.

Whereas with my Series X, I can update games and do it in the background while playing something else (yes, the update will go slower), and it doesn't affect gameplay at all.  And if I have to update the XBox itself, the reboot takes less than a minute.

Now granted, my PC is pretty old and isn't used much for gaming any more.  And this is the main point about any of these electronics: anything you use regularly takes less time to keep up to date because it only needs to update about one thing at a time, while something you use less often will require a backlog of updates before you can do what you came to do.



Switch: SW-3707-5131-3911
XBox: Kenjabish

kenjab said:

I have to keep Windows, video drivers, sound drivers, and peripheral drivers all up to date, each of which require many minutes to update, and many of which require a reboot of the PC, which itself takes at least 5 minutes to reboot.  This doesn't even mention keeping the games themselves updated as well.  And any of these updates makes the PC basically useless for gaming while they're being done.

1) Buy an SSD. 5 minute boot times aren't a thing with a fast nvme drive, my PC boots faster than the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5. It's not 2007 anymore.
2) You do not need to reboot after updating drivers, you need to reboot for the new features/performance to take effect.
3) You can defer windows and driver updates to a later date that is more convenient.

kenjab said:

Whereas with my Series X, I can update games and do it in the background while playing something else (yes, the update will go slower), and it doesn't affect gameplay at all.  And if I have to update the XBox itself, the reboot takes less than a minute.

You can also update games in the background on Windows while playing another game... In-fact that has been a PC feature for the last 30 damn years... So this point is a little hypocritical and weird.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 04 May 2021

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

kenjab said:

I have to laugh because the reasons that I've moved back to consoles and away from PCs is pretty much the same as the reasons you went back to PCs.  Don't even get me started on the updates on PC.  I have to keep Windows, video drivers, sound drivers, and peripheral drivers all up to date, each of which require many minutes to update, and many of which require a reboot of the PC, which itself takes at least 5 minutes to reboot.  This doesn't even mention keeping the games themselves updated as well.  And any of these updates makes the PC basically useless for gaming while they're being done.

Whereas with my Series X, I can update games and do it in the background while playing something else (yes, the update will go slower), and it doesn't affect gameplay at all.  And if I have to update the XBox itself, the reboot takes less than a minute.

Now granted, my PC is pretty old and isn't used much for gaming any more.  And this is the main point about any of these electronics: anything you use regularly takes less time to keep up to date because it only needs to update about one thing at a time, while something you use less often will require a backlog of updates before you can do what you came to do.

The main thing that changed is SSD. Instead of 5 minutes to reboot, it's now 10-15 seconds. I also don't tend to update drivers until it becomes a must and windows installs and reboots automatically at night. I don't feel comfortable leaving consoles on all the time, yet my laptop is always plugged in and ready to go. My old gaming pc however, turn on and go make a cup of tea. And even though windows 7 is no longer supported, it still wants to install updates every time I turn it off...

Since my kids have my 'primary' ps4, I can't do anything without updating first. Not online, all digital games locked. GT Sport you can't play online without updating. It's the same on PC though. FS2020 updates are a pita, huge, slow, mandatory, always something broken afterwards. (And perhaps needing new video drivers as well).

You're right, the difference is in what you use regularly. If you only use it sporadically, you're always swamped with updates. (And controllers that need to be charged ugh) Not so with the older consoles though, WiiU Mario, turn on and go. (If the gamepad is charged lol)

The cycle of my life, mainly gaming on 1980 PC 1986 Console 1991 PC 2006 Console 2020 PC 2035 ?




They are ticking all the right boxes for me and it's not even close, really.

GamePass. As the GP value thread showed, I've saved over $1,000 thus far thanks to GamePass. Now I play a lot more games and pay less. Plus, I get all MS games "free". None of the other consoles have anything remotely close to this.

xCloud. So far I've only used it on my PC browser and my phone on my home WiFi, but in the future this is going to be amazing. Mostly because, again, it has all MS first party games on it, and eventually GamePass games.

First party. I've never been a huge fan of MS first party. Until last gen I hadn't even played most Halo games and until this gen not most Gears titles. But now they have the biggest studio stable around and not only have they added a ton of studios but they are all studios that are my jam. Bethesda, Double Fine, Playground, Obsidian, Undead Labs, etc.

SmartDelivery. Mocked prior to launch, we've already seen it come in clutch for Xbox users while on the other platform there have been issues. Using xCloud on my PC for example, if I load up Outriders, it plays the last gen version of the game. My save transfers just fine and I play the game. When I go back to my Series X it grabs my save from last gen and applies it to my Series X version and loads it right up. If I go to download a game optimized for X|S it just grabs the right one and it works.

I'd also go into price, MS is still selling games for $60 compared to $70, but with GamePass making all first party games "free", it seems like a redundant point.

Free legacy enhancements. They just added a shit ton of FPS boost games. We also get resolution enhancements, auto-HDR, and quick resume on older titles. It's fucking amazing.

Overall it's just an amazing gamer centric console that seems more "4theplayers" than anything that we have seen before.



Just to add about the legacy enhancements, Mass Effect Triology launches soon for all Xbox and PS consoles. It’s essentially a last gen game enhanced, so the PS5 will basically just run the PS4 Pro version with no enhancements. But the SX will run the game at double the frame rate, because of the BC support built in. Amazing.