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Forums - Sales Discussion - USA: PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series. PS5 breaks PS4's launch record

thismeintiel said:

You honestly think if Sony didn't have all those exclusives to set it apart it would have even been able to catch up, let alone beat the 360? Obviously, no. Especially with 360 winning multiplat comparisons for the first couple of years, and by a good margin for the first year.  It would have been dead in the water in NA, maybe tie in EU, and only outsold 360 by a couple of million in Japan. Likewise, if the great exclusives kept coming for 360 at the end, it's likely the PS3 would not have passed it by a few million, like it did. It also would have left the XBO with a better standing with gamers, since they would know MS delivers in the games department.

Look, I know your schtick is to downplay Sony and their exclusives. You obviously want Xbox to take PS down a peg. Why? I'm guessing it's a little like Sega fans still hating Sony for "killing" Sega HW, since Sony knocked Nintendo off the home console thrown. Or you feel threatened by their success in some way. Not sure why, cause Nintendo still kills it in handhelds. Either way, it ain't happening. Not with sPenceR in charge.

And XSX losing any multiplat comparisons, or even tying them, has made it a laughingstock. MS has been hyping up the console as a "monster eater" for about a year, now. "Games will play best on our 12 Tflops beast." Now, gamers are laughing because it seems to have been all hype and some Xbox gamers are reduced to making excuses like last gen and telling people to "wait til next year," yet again. Thing is, gamers have been waiting til next year for 7 years, now. It gets old.

I will agree that there is a chance that XSX does a little better than XBO, at least in NA. But, more than likely, PS5 will also do better than PS4.

We are still talking about first party games, right? The PS3 would have been able to catch up without them, yes. The PS3 had already passed the 360 in Europe by the end of 2009, so during a stretch where not many noteworthy SCE games had been released. Sony's first party was insignificant for the Japanese market with only three games selling more than 0.5m copies, none above 1m. It's safe to say that the PS3 would have sold an absolute minimum of 8m units in Japan without Sony's games, not under 4m like you suggest.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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Sales figures for console launches in the U.S.

PlayStation 5 : > 1140K
PlayStation 4 : 1140K
Xbox One : 910K
Nintendo Switch : 906K
Xbox Series X/S : < 910K
Xbox : > 550K
GameCube : > 500K
Dreamcast : > 500K
Wii : 476K
Wii U : > 425K
PlayStation 2 : > 395K
Xbox 360 : 326K
Nintendo 64 : > 300K
PlayStation 3 : 197K
PlayStation : > 100K



JRPGfan said:
Bandorr said:

Do you actually expect anything to change by March? The only xbox game to come out will have been the Medium. Assuming it doesn't get delayed again.

You're gonna need to wait until the end of 2021 at least for Halo, little alone Forza, and every other game so far behind we have only seen CGI trailers so far.

PS5 2021:

Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Gran Turismo 7
Returnal
God of War: Ragnarok
(potentially) Final Fantasy XVI
(potentially) Project Athia

(smaller stuff like DeathLoop, Destruction all stars, Ghostwire Tokyo)


Halo Infinity / Forza will be drowned out, by Playstation titles (in 2021).

Horizon: Forbidden West is also 2021



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

Intrinsic said:
shikamaru317 said:

Supposedly Xbox Series production started like 2 months later than PS5 production because MS had to wait longer on their AMD chipset. That seems to have really hurt their launch supply. Demand is far higher than supply, was the opposite for XB1 back in 2013, you could walk into just about any retailer and find an XB1 by Black Friday week, whereas Xbox Series is still sold out everywhere in most countries, including the US. MS is saying that demand is high enough that there may still be sellouts in March. 

That's BS... not peaking to you directly but speaking to that narrative of MS waiting for "fullRDNA2".

MS has had their full final chipset since last year. Its like people forget that MS showed the teardown of their console before sony even showed the box of theirs. Or people don't realize that the case design is the absolute last thing any company does when making a console. This means that by TGA last year when the series X was revealed, MS had already built that conole.

When MS says they are waiting for fullRDNA2, what they are really saying in PR gloss, is "it's taken us longer than we expected moving romXDK to GDK and making GDK feature complete and identical to RDNA2 and we are still working on optimizing our dev kit/tools".

I mean Phil said it in an interview recently, that they had to wait until late Summer (I assume that means August) for their AMD chipsets so that they could finish their Xbox Series units. Supposedly PS5 was in production by late June I think. So it does make sense why Sony was able to get so much more stock ready for launch than MS. MS clearly weren't able to manufacture enough stock to meet demand, in spite of the fact that they saw their day one preorders sell out minutes way back in September. 



RolStoppable said:
thismeintiel said:

You honestly think if Sony didn't have all those exclusives to set it apart it would have even been able to catch up, let alone beat the 360? Obviously, no. Especially with 360 winning multiplat comparisons for the first couple of years, and by a good margin for the first year.  It would have been dead in the water in NA, maybe tie in EU, and only outsold 360 by a couple of million in Japan. Likewise, if the great exclusives kept coming for 360 at the end, it's likely the PS3 would not have passed it by a few million, like it did. It also would have left the XBO with a better standing with gamers, since they would know MS delivers in the games department.

Look, I know your schtick is to downplay Sony and their exclusives. You obviously want Xbox to take PS down a peg. Why? I'm guessing it's a little like Sega fans still hating Sony for "killing" Sega HW, since Sony knocked Nintendo off the home console thrown. Or you feel threatened by their success in some way. Not sure why, cause Nintendo still kills it in handhelds. Either way, it ain't happening. Not with sPenceR in charge.

And XSX losing any multiplat comparisons, or even tying them, has made it a laughingstock. MS has been hyping up the console as a "monster eater" for about a year, now. "Games will play best on our 12 Tflops beast." Now, gamers are laughing because it seems to have been all hype and some Xbox gamers are reduced to making excuses like last gen and telling people to "wait til next year," yet again. Thing is, gamers have been waiting til next year for 7 years, now. It gets old.

I will agree that there is a chance that XSX does a little better than XBO, at least in NA. But, more than likely, PS5 will also do better than PS4.

We are still talking about first party games, right? The PS3 would have been able to catch up without them, yes. The PS3 had already passed the 360 in Europe by the end of 2009, so during a stretch where not many noteworthy SCE games had been released. Sony's first party was insignificant for the Japanese market with only three games selling more than 0.5m copies, none above 1m. It's safe to say that the PS3 would have sold an absolute minimum of 8m units in Japan without Sony's games, not under 4m like you suggest.

You say not many noteworthy releases, which means you admit there were some. Off the top of my head I can think of UC, KZ2, R&C, and GT5:P. Again, take those out completely, and the promise of new 1st party games, like GT5, GOW3, and UC2. If you honestly think the PS3 would still have beat the 360 without that, there is nothing to cure that level of willful delusion. Sure, Japan may have sold a few million more than my hyperbolic estimate, but it would not have made up for a close race in EU and a severe beating in NA.



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The fact the Wii U had a bigger launch than the 360 and PS2 shows just how useless launch sales are at determining long term sales. The only thing of note is the PS5 broke the record which is a good sign but that's it. Things are probably gonna get rowdier here for the next few months compared to the last few which will be fun.



shikamaru317 said:
Intrinsic said:

That's BS... not peaking to you directly but speaking to that narrative of MS waiting for "fullRDNA2".

MS has had their full final chipset since last year. Its like people forget that MS showed the teardown of their console before sony even showed the box of theirs. Or people don't realize that the case design is the absolute last thing any company does when making a console. This means that by TGA last year when the series X was revealed, MS had already built that conole.

When MS says they are waiting for fullRDNA2, what they are really saying in PR gloss, is "it's taken us longer than we expected moving romXDK to GDK and making GDK feature complete and identical to RDNA2 and we are still working on optimizing our dev kit/tools".

I mean Phil said it in an interview recently, that they had to wait until late Summer (I assume that means August) for their AMD chipsets so that they could finish their Xbox Series units. Supposedly PS5 was in production by late June I think. So it does make sense why Sony was able to get so much more stock ready for launch than MS. MS clearly weren't able to manufacture enough stock to meet demand, in spite of the fact that they saw their day one preorders sell out minutes way back in September. 

Phil also said he had a finished Series X in his house in early May. And they showed off the final unit in Dec of the previous year at the VGAs. So which is it? Were they ahead of Sony, like Xbox fans were saying late last year and early this year? Or are they behind them, which only started being the narrative when the 12 Tflops beast narrative didn't quite play out?



People seem to regularly forget Microsoft is more than XBox. They also do PC gaming.



thismeintiel said:
shikamaru317 said:

I mean Phil said it in an interview recently, that they had to wait until late Summer (I assume that means August) for their AMD chipsets so that they could finish their Xbox Series units. Supposedly PS5 was in production by late June I think. So it does make sense why Sony was able to get so much more stock ready for launch than MS. MS clearly weren't able to manufacture enough stock to meet demand, in spite of the fact that they saw their day one preorders sell out minutes way back in September. 

Phil also said he had a finished Series X in his house in early May. And they showed off the final unit in Dec at the VGAs. So which is it? Were they ahead of Sony, like Xbox fans were saying late last year and early this year? Or are they behind them, which only started being the narrative when the 12 Tflops beast narrative didn't quite play out.

Those were both early prototype units. The design at the Game Awards last year was literally just a shell, they showed it off in a case as CES 2020 in January as I recall and it didn't even have ports on the back, just cutouts for ports. 

The one Phil had in May was clearly one of the first working prototype units. 

The reason people thought that MS was ahead of schedule was because there was an article in early May based on an interview with an Xbox France guy, which claimed that MS had started Xbox Series production that week, in early May, which would have meant like a 1 month headstart over the start of Xbox One and Xbox 360 production. However, Phil said in the interview recently that they had to wait until late summer for their AMD chip in order to start production, which either means that the Xbox France guy was wrong, or that Phil was lying. 

“We started manufacturing late summer. We were a little bit later than the competition, because we were waiting for some specific AMD technology in our chip,” said Spencer.

Considering that MS was unable to produce more Xbox Series stock than Xbox One stock so far (launch aligned), as well as the fact that most people's Xbox Series units have August or later dates on the back of the console (my own was produced in October), I'm inclined to believe Phil when he says that it was late summer when production started. It basically means that they only had 3.5 months manufacture units ahead of launch, when most consoles get more like 5 months of manufacturing ahead of launch.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 12 December 2020

the usual suspects are in here trying to spread fud again smh