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Forums - Sales Discussion - USA: PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series. PS5 breaks PS4's launch record

JRPGfan on 12 December 2020
smroadkill15 said:

Congrats to Sony for doing a better job at having more consoles manufactured.
This just means the Series X/S has had more of a supply constraint and with launching in 37 countries vs 13 for the X1, led to less consoles being sold in those 13 countries compared to X1, but more Series X consoles were sold worldwide compared to X1. If you look at the worldwide numbers sold at launch, Series X only sold about 100k-200k more than the X1 worldwide, so I felt like this was the obvious conclusion, but I guess not.

Thats not the story.
The story is, the PS5 outselling the PS4 at launch, in basically every region in the world when compaired.

nvm the Series X+S being down most regions, compaired to the Xbox One launch.
(which you could excuse as just, them haveing issues with production this time around, if your looking for a excuse)



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JRPGfan on 12 December 2020
RolStoppable said:
JRPGfan said:

Thats not the story.
The story is its outselling the PS4 at launch, in basically every region in the world when compaired.

nvm the Series X+S being down most regions, compaired to the Xbox One launch.

Is it that much of a bother that the XSX|S hasn't flopped hard?

Its just the xbox being down, this gen, compaired to last gen, isnt even the real story.

So no, its not a "bother".

I was pointing out, the need to downplay, why the xbox series x+s did poorly, by him, was unnessary.

The real story, is the success of the PS5 (beating the PS4).
(not compaired to series x+s, but by beating the insane performance the PS4 had at launch last gen).

PS5 also set a record, for highest unit+dollar sales, for controllers for a console, in history.



smroadkill15 on 12 December 2020
JRPGfan said:
smroadkill15 said:

Congrats to Sony for doing a better job at having more consoles manufactured.
This just means the Series X/S has had more of a supply constraint and with launching in 37 countries vs 13 for the X1, led to less consoles being sold in those 13 countries compared to X1, but more Series X consoles were sold worldwide compared to X1. If you look at the worldwide numbers sold at launch, Series X only sold about 100k-200k more than the X1 worldwide, so I felt like this was the obvious conclusion, but I guess not.

Thats not the story.
The story is, the PS5 outselling the PS4 at launch, in basically every region in the world when compaired.

nvm the Series X+S being down most regions, compaired to the Xbox One launch.
(which you could excuse as just, them haveing issues with production this time around, if your looking for a excuse)

Nah, the point of the OP post was to take a dig at the Series X/S launch numbers and boast PS5 numbers. He literally posted the same thing in another thread downplaying the Series X/S launch before making this thread, but whatever. Good on Sony.  



JRPGfan on 12 December 2020
RolStoppable said:
JRPGfan said:

Its just the xbox being down, this gen, compaired to last gen, isnt even the real story.

So no, its not a "bother".

I was pointing out, the need to downplay, why the xbox series x+s did poorly, by him, was unnessary.

The real story, is the success of the PS5 (beating the PS4).
(not compaired to series x+s, but by beating the insane performance the PS4 had at launch last gen).

PS5 also set a record, for highest unit+dollar sales, for controllers for a console, in history.

There hasn't been a leak regarding what Xbox actually sold, so calling it "poorly" is wishful thinking on your part. Likewise, what you call "downplay" is a reasonable explanation.

The downplay, I mentioned, wasnt towards xbox series x+s sales.
But the way he congratulated sony on the PS5 sales.  You miss understood me.


smroadkill15 said:

Congrats to Sony for doing a better job at having more consoles manufactured.
This just means the Series X/S has had more of a supply constraint and with launching in 37 countries vs 13 for the X1, led to less consoles being sold in those 13 countries compared to X1, but more Series X consoles were sold worldwide compared to X1. If you look at the worldwide numbers sold at launch, Series X only sold about 100k-200k more than the X1 worldwide, so I felt like this was the obvious conclusion, but I guess not.

^ this is downplaying, what Sony did.

Sony beat their own PS4 launch records.
I dont care about him explaining why the xbox did poorly (its down 30%+ compaired to launch of Xbox One, most places).
What I care about is, its totally missing the point that Sony did something impressive.

Basically sony come out by selling the most a console ever has in history (at a console launch).
And its "well thats only because xbox had production issues, and started later"

You can see why I go huh? thats not the story.


"There hasn't been a leak regarding what Xbox actually sold, so calling it "poorly" is wishful thinking on your part."

There has actually been leaks (we know number/number ranges), of US, Spain, France, ect. (other places in europe).
Were the general trend is its down compaired to the Xbox One launch.


Last edited by JRPGfan - on 12 December 2020

JRPGfan on 12 December 2020

JRPGfan said:
RolStoppable said:

Is it that much of a bother that the XSX|S hasn't flopped hard?

Its just the xbox being down, this gen, compaired to last gen, isnt even the real story.

So no, its not a "bother".

I was pointing out, the need to downplay, why the xbox series x+s did poorly, by him, was unnessary.

The real story, is the success of the PS5 (beating the PS4).
(not compaired to series x+s, but by beating the insane performance the PS4 had at launch last gen).

PS5 also set a record, for highest unit+dollar sales, for controllers for a console, in history.

+

RolStoppable said:
JRPGfan said:

Its just the xbox being down, this gen, compaired to last gen, isnt even the real story.

So no, its not a "bother".

I was pointing out, the need to downplay, why the xbox series x+s did poorly, by him, was unnessary.

The real story, is the success of the PS5 (beating the PS4).
(not compaired to series x+s, but by beating the insane performance the PS4 had at launch last gen).

PS5 also set a record, for highest unit+dollar sales, for controllers for a console, in history.

There hasn't been a leak regarding what Xbox actually sold, so calling it "poorly" is wishful thinking on your part. Likewise, what you call "downplay" is a reasonable explanation.

+

RolStoppable said:
JRPGfan said:

The downplay, I mentioned, wasnt towards xbox series x+s sales.
But the way he congratulated sony on the PS5 sales.

smroadkill15 said:

Congrats to Sony for doing a better job at having more consoles manufactured.
This just means the Series X/S has had more of a supply constraint and with launching in 37 countries vs 13 for the X1, led to less consoles being sold in those 13 countries compared to X1, but more Series X consoles were sold worldwide compared to X1. If you look at the worldwide numbers sold at launch, Series X only sold about 100k-200k more than the X1 worldwide, so I felt like this was the obvious conclusion, but I guess not.

^ this is downplaying, what Sony did.

Sony beat their own PS4 launch records.
I dont care about him explaining why the xbox did poorly (its down 30%+ compaired to launch of Xbox One, most places).
What I care about is, its totally missing the point that Sony did something impressive.

Basically sony come out by selling the most a console ever has in history (at a console launch).
And its "well thats only because xbox had production issues, and started later"

You can see why I go huh? thats not the story.

Your mind is playing tricks on you. It has combined different posts from different people and now you see the same thing everywhere even when it's not there.

What you have in the post is:

1. Why Sony managed to beat their previous numbers in the USA.

2. Why Microsoft didn't manage to beat their previous numbers in the USA.

What you see is, "This is why Xbox didn't beat PS."


So lets go back to the original posts that started this, so we can see "who mixed things up" and has a mind thats playing tricks on them.

smroadkill15 said:

Congrats to Sony for doing a better job at having more consoles manufactured.
This just means the Series X/S has had more of a supply constraint and with launching in 37 countries vs 13 for the X1, led to less consoles being sold in those 13 countries compared to X1, but more Series X consoles were sold worldwide compared to X1. If you look at the worldwide numbers sold at launch, Series X only sold about 100k-200k more than the X1 worldwide, so I felt like this was the obvious conclusion, but I guess not.

To which my reply is below (inside your quote):

RolStoppable said:
JRPGfan said:

Thats not the story.
The story is its outselling the PS4 at launch, in basically every region in the world when compaired.

nvm the Series X+S being down most regions, compaired to the Xbox One launch.

Is it that much of a bother that the XSX|S hasn't flopped hard?

The logic follows:

1) Smroad downplays what Sony did, by saying "Congrats to Sony for doing a better job at having more consoles manufactured."

2) I reply "thats not the story" , but how well the PS5 did compaired to the PS4.

3) you reply to that, "is it much of a bother that XSX/S, hasnt flopped hard?"

4) I reply to you (the bother quote):  
"no, its not a "bother". I was pointing out, the need to downplay, and why the xbox series x+s did poorly, by him, was unnessary."

5) to which you reply: "hasnt been leaks of what xbox sold" +  "Likewise, what you call "downplay" is a reasonable explanation."


Step 5) here is where the issue pops up.

You think, when I say "downplay" about Smroadkill15, its about the sales of the Xbox.
But its not, its about him downplaying the success the PS5 had.

we talked past each other.

Then you reply this:

6) "your mind is playing tricks on you" quote.



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thismeintiel on 12 December 2020
RolStoppable said:
thismeintiel said:

So far it seems in every country we have numbers in, XSX is either doing practically the same as the XBO or worse, while PS5 is doing better. I really don't think they are in a better position than XBO was.  

Regardless of what people think, every gen is not a hard reset. You either have to come out big to correct a former mistake, like PS3 to PS4 and Wii U/3DS to Switch, or screw up big time to hurt your momentum, like PS2 to PS3 and Wii to Wii U. XSX is not launching in a vacuum. It's being released after a mediocre gen from Xbox. 

XBO at least launched after the successful 360, so a larger pool of fans to pull from. Ones who may forgive the early stumble of DRM.  XSX is launching after the mediocre XBO, and a great run for PS4, which saw many gamers jump ship from Xbox. While there are many who remember the DRM of XBO, even more went through the XBO's drought of 1st party support. The same thing that happened with the 360 near the end, which contributed to PS3 pulling ahead of it and helped push gamers back onto PS4.  Gamers know Sony delivers in that category.  

Now, we have no real launch exclusives for XSX out of the gate, which just emphasizes the poor 1st party support of last gen with gamers. And the games that will be on it are going to always be on PC on the same day, which makes it somewhat pointless unless you are strictly a console gamer. Hell, Bethesda games may still come to PS5, depending on the deal they work out and what situation the XSX is in in 2022, when we can even expect to see the early fruits of such a deal. On top of that, multiplats aren't performing better on it like MS was preaching it would for almost a year, now. 

All of this combined does not put it in a better position than the XBO.

So apparently no Xboxes on American store shelves right now. That's the only thing that really matters right now.

...

But because I have the time, I'll address the story you've been telling. The 360 had a headstart of ~5.5m over the PS3 (November 2006). Here's what the gap was at the end of each calendar year:

2006 - 5.7m
2007 - 5.7m
2008 - 6.4m
2009 - 4.5m
2010 - 3.6m
2011 - 2.7m
2012 - 1.7m
2013 - 0.7m
2014 - 0.5m, now in PS3's favor

The 360 lost ground long before the so-called "drought of first party support" and it was a steady process. I know it sounds a lot better for PS fans if first party exclusives were the decisive make or break factor, but in reality it's a basic case of Xbox's limited global appeal chipping away at its lead. The 360 beat the PS3 only in a single year (2008) where both consoles were available in all twelve months, but it seems it had to be much more than that, considering how long the 360 held an LTD lead over the PS3.

Regarding performance of multiplatform games, the early comparisons between the PS5 and XSX have been mostly a wash with pedantic framerate and pixel counting; depending on the chosen setup, at times the PS5 wins, at times it's the other way around. A generation ago it was absolutely clearcut that the PS4 is the winner in the comparisons, so logically, the XSX is in a better position than the XB1 because it isn't a laughing stock right out of the gate.

But like I said at the beginning of this post, by far the best indicator right now is how many Xboxes are on store shelves. Demand for the XB1 was dropping off quickly, but it's not looking like that will happen to the same degree for the XSX|S.

You honestly think if Sony didn't have all those exclusives to set it apart it would have even been able to catch up, let alone beat the 360? Obviously, no. Especially with 360 winning multiplat comparisons for the first couple of years, and by a good margin for the first year.  It would have been dead in the water in NA, maybe tie in EU, and only outsold 360 by a couple of million in Japan. Likewise, if the great exclusives kept coming for 360 at the end, it's likely the PS3 would not have passed it by a few million, like it did. It also would have left the XBO with a better standing with gamers, since they would know MS delivers in the games department.

Look, I know your schtick is to downplay Sony and their exclusives. You obviously want Xbox to take PS down a peg. Why? I'm guessing it's a little like Sega fans still hating Sony for "killing" Sega HW, since Sony knocked Nintendo off the home console thrown. Or you feel threatened by their success in some way. Not sure why, cause Nintendo still kills it in handhelds. Either way, it ain't happening. Not with sPenceR in charge.

And XSX losing any multiplat comparisons, or even tying them, has made it a laughingstock. MS has been hyping up the console as a "monster eater" for about a year, now. "Games will play best on our 12 Tflops beast." Now, gamers are laughing because it seems to have been all hype and some Xbox gamers are reduced to making excuses like last gen and telling people to "wait til next year," yet again. Thing is, gamers have been waiting til next year for 7 years, now. It gets old.

I will agree that there is a chance that XSX does a little better than XBO, at least in NA. But, more than likely, PS5 will also do better than PS4.



 

sales2099 on 12 December 2020
JRPGfan said:
Bandorr said:

Do you actually expect anything to change by March? The only xbox game to come out will have been the Medium. Assuming it doesn't get delayed again.

You're gonna need to wait until the end of 2021 at least for Halo, little alone Forza, and every other game so far behind we have only seen CGI trailers so far.

PS5 2021:

Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Gran Turismo 7
Returnal
God of War: Ragnarok
(potentially) Final Fantasy XVI
(potentially) Project Athia

(smaller stuff like DeathLoop, Destruction all stars, Ghostwire Tokyo)


Halo Infinity / Forza will be drowned out, by Playstation titles (in 2021). 

This year has a few Xbox studio titles but mainly timed exclusives to hold the line until 2022. 

CrossfireX and Medium are in the beginning of the year. Summer is Grounded (complete) and Flight SIM, fall is Halo and Forza Horizon 5. Ark 2 is somewhere in there. And a bunch of timed exclusive games in between. 

(Scorn, The Gunk, Stalker 2, Hello Neighbor 2, Exomecha, Bright Memory Infinite, 12 Minutes, Second Extinction, and The Ascent, Warhammer dark tide.)

Hopefully Bethesda comes through and pulls Starfield out their butt for 2021 to really make it all come together. Otherwise I’d worry more about Xbox drowning out PS games in the fall. Forza Horizon is a popular beast and Halo Infinite has a very hungry fanbase with a free multiplayer component. Compared to “one and done” games Halo and Forza will have more long term engagement. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Evilms on 12 December 2020

Sales figures for console launches in the U.S.

PlayStation 5 : > 1140K
PlayStation 4 : 1140K
Xbox One : 910K
Nintendo Switch : 906K
Xbox Series X/S : < 910K
Xbox : > 550K
GameCube : > 500K
Dreamcast : > 500K
Wii : 476K
Wii U : > 425K
PlayStation 2 : > 395K
Xbox 360 : 326K
Nintendo 64 : > 300K
PlayStation 3 : 197K
PlayStation : > 100K



COKTOE on 12 December 2020
JRPGfan said:
Bandorr said:

Do you actually expect anything to change by March? The only xbox game to come out will have been the Medium. Assuming it doesn't get delayed again.

You're gonna need to wait until the end of 2021 at least for Halo, little alone Forza, and every other game so far behind we have only seen CGI trailers so far.

PS5 2021:

Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Gran Turismo 7
Returnal
God of War: Ragnarok
(potentially) Final Fantasy XVI
(potentially) Project Athia

(smaller stuff like DeathLoop, Destruction all stars, Ghostwire Tokyo)


Halo Infinity / Forza will be drowned out, by Playstation titles (in 2021).

Horizon: Forbidden West is also 2021



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

thismeintiel on 12 December 2020
RolStoppable said:
thismeintiel said:

You honestly think if Sony didn't have all those exclusives to set it apart it would have even been able to catch up, let alone beat the 360? Obviously, no. Especially with 360 winning multiplat comparisons for the first couple of years, and by a good margin for the first year.  It would have been dead in the water in NA, maybe tie in EU, and only outsold 360 by a couple of million in Japan. Likewise, if the great exclusives kept coming for 360 at the end, it's likely the PS3 would not have passed it by a few million, like it did. It also would have left the XBO with a better standing with gamers, since they would know MS delivers in the games department.

Look, I know your schtick is to downplay Sony and their exclusives. You obviously want Xbox to take PS down a peg. Why? I'm guessing it's a little like Sega fans still hating Sony for "killing" Sega HW, since Sony knocked Nintendo off the home console thrown. Or you feel threatened by their success in some way. Not sure why, cause Nintendo still kills it in handhelds. Either way, it ain't happening. Not with sPenceR in charge.

And XSX losing any multiplat comparisons, or even tying them, has made it a laughingstock. MS has been hyping up the console as a "monster eater" for about a year, now. "Games will play best on our 12 Tflops beast." Now, gamers are laughing because it seems to have been all hype and some Xbox gamers are reduced to making excuses like last gen and telling people to "wait til next year," yet again. Thing is, gamers have been waiting til next year for 7 years, now. It gets old.

I will agree that there is a chance that XSX does a little better than XBO, at least in NA. But, more than likely, PS5 will also do better than PS4.

We are still talking about first party games, right? The PS3 would have been able to catch up without them, yes. The PS3 had already passed the 360 in Europe by the end of 2009, so during a stretch where not many noteworthy SCE games had been released. Sony's first party was insignificant for the Japanese market with only three games selling more than 0.5m copies, none above 1m. It's safe to say that the PS3 would have sold an absolute minimum of 8m units in Japan without Sony's games, not under 4m like you suggest.

You say not many noteworthy releases, which means you admit there were some. Off the top of my head I can think of UC, KZ2, R&C, and GT5:P. Again, take those out completely, and the promise of new 1st party games, like GT5, GOW3, and UC2. If you honestly think the PS3 would still have beat the 360 without that, there is nothing to cure that level of willful delusion. Sure, Japan may have sold a few million more than my hyperbolic estimate, but it would not have made up for a close race in EU and a severe beating in NA.