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Forums - Sony Discussion - What's next for Naughty Dog?

It will be a new IP, at least what I hope; next will be TLOU, maybe a prequel ? I would also love a new Uncharted Game from Naughty Dog, and not from another Dev. It should be stellar, full of adrenalin action, and a very strong MP, and I want back Adventure coop and Arena coop, so basicly an "Uncharted 2 like" on steroids for the single player, and "Uncharted 3 like" on steroids for the Multi player. Dreaming is free :D



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Hopefully TLoU3 by 2023.



Dante9 said:
JuliusHackebeil said:

And I hate to say it, but I don't trust Druckman with anything any longer. Perhaps, when you are driven by personal ideology in a way Druckman is, this rubs off on your game and it becomes less daring since it HAS to be a force for good. It honestly astonishes me how clear cut good and evil are in part 2.

For their next game, I wish for moral ambiguity and daring messages, not just subversion of expectation à la Rian Johnson.

What? How did you come away with that from the game? It was the total opposite of clear cut, it was pretty clear they wanted to show that there really are no good guys and bad guys or good and evil, it's just a matter of perspective. That was the whole point. An opposing group seem like the bad guys until you suddenly are shown things from their point of view. All characters do all kinds of things in the game, mostly horrific shit, even to the point where you as a player are made uncomfortable for what you have to do, and the characters justify their actions of course. I don't think bad things were portrayed as good in the first game either, it's always up to the player and it's very interesting how we fall in love with characters who do very grim stuff. The whole series is a study of the ambiguous nature of how we feel about these things.

I can agree to some extent. Yes, who is the good guy and who is the bad are very much dependent on perspective in TLoU2.

On the other hand: evil deeds are portrayed as evil and good deeds as good. This us what I think is too clear cut.

Spoilery talk:

Some characters might kill or torture others. In a really daring game the conversation would be open about this being a good thing. In part 2 stuff like that is bad 100 % of the time. And only when characters of part 2 are able to overcome their dark desires are they able to grow and overcome their trauma and get on with their lives.

And I really think this is something I cannot overlook. It is kiddy, but with a dark facade. And I fear their next game is goint to be similar in this regard. That there is no question about how to be good. Sure, for their next game I don't expect a clear cut villain and a clear cut good guy ptotagonist. But I fully expect that ND will carefully portray the bad stuff as bad and the good stuff as good, so that everybody knows how to be a goody two shoes. And that revenge is always bad. And that you have to forgive yourself and others to start healing. Such deep.



JuliusHackebeil said:
Dante9 said:

What? How did you come away with that from the game? It was the total opposite of clear cut, it was pretty clear they wanted to show that there really are no good guys and bad guys or good and evil, it's just a matter of perspective. That was the whole point. An opposing group seem like the bad guys until you suddenly are shown things from their point of view. All characters do all kinds of things in the game, mostly horrific shit, even to the point where you as a player are made uncomfortable for what you have to do, and the characters justify their actions of course. I don't think bad things were portrayed as good in the first game either, it's always up to the player and it's very interesting how we fall in love with characters who do very grim stuff. The whole series is a study of the ambiguous nature of how we feel about these things.

I can agree to some extent. Yes, who is the good guy and who is the bad are very much dependent on perspective in TLoU2.

On the other hand: evil deeds are portrayed as evil and good deeds as good. This us what I think is too clear cut.

Spoilery talk:

Some characters might kill or torture others. In a really daring game the conversation would be open about this being a good thing. In part 2 stuff like that is bad 100 % of the time. And only when characters of part 2 are able to overcome their dark desires are they able to grow and overcome their trauma and get on with their lives.

And I really think this is something I cannot overlook. It is kiddy, but with a dark facade. And I fear their next game is goint to be similar in this regard. That there is no question about how to be good. Sure, for their next game I don't expect a clear cut villain and a clear cut good guy ptotagonist. But I fully expect that ND will carefully portray the bad stuff as bad and the good stuff as good, so that everybody knows how to be a goody two shoes. And that revenge is always bad. And that you have to forgive yourself and others to start healing. Such deep.

The thing is, some things just can't really be justified as a good thing, no matter how you look at them. Torturing or killing someone may get you results, but they're still a shitty and awful thing to do to anyone, I don't think there's really a discussion to be had here in that regard. It's just about to what lengths one is willing to go to to achieve something. There's a price to pay.

Also, like you said yourself, there's trauma involved for all parties. Unless you're a psychopath of some kind, doing brutal things to other people will screw with your mental health, even if it felt justified at the time. People don't really think about this stuff because in most games, you just slaughter people in the hundreds without batting an eye. It's just a game mechanic. TLOU is trying to address what consequences it would have on you in real life. It IS pretty deep indeed.



I'm down for a The Last of Us part III but preferably a new IP. Maybe Savage Starlight would be nice. They already created a lot of the Lore by the having the ingame comics and cards



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Naughty Dog have proven to be strong with linear action adventure games.
I'd like a new IP from them but still some sort of action adventure.

They have combined it with platforming, run gun, stealth and horror. Maybe go more for some puzzles?
Thinking something like portal 2 but a little more close to home.

The last thing I wish to see is for them to go open world. Keep doing some great linear games please.




Dante9 said:
JuliusHackebeil said:

And I really think this is something I cannot overlook. It is kiddy, but with a dark facade. And I fear their next game is goint to be similar in this regard. That there is no question about how to be good. Sure, for their next game I don't expect a clear cut villain and a clear cut good guy ptotagonist. But I fully expect that ND will carefully portray the bad stuff as bad and the good stuff as good, so that everybody knows how to be a goody two shoes. And that revenge is always bad. And that you have to forgive yourself and others to start healing. Such deep.

The thing is, some things just can't really be justified as a good thing, no matter how you look at them. Torturing or killing someone may get you results, but they're still a shitty and awful thing to do to anyone, I don't think there's really a discussion to be had here in that regard. It's just about to what lengths one is willing to go to to achieve something. There's a price to pay.

Also, like you said yourself, there's trauma involved for all parties. Unless you're a psychopath of some kind, doing brutal things to other people will screw with your mental health, even if it felt justified at the time. People don't really think about this stuff because in most games, you just slaughter people in the hundreds without batting an eye. It's just a game mechanic. TLOU is trying to address what consequences it would have on you in real life. It IS pretty deep indeed.

I'm trying to frame this in regards to what I want from ND in their next game, so that it is not too far off topic.

I think there is a somewhat discussion to be had about murder and torture being a good, or bad thing. Sure, we all see those things as bad, but this does not mean I cannot consume stuff (like video games) where the lessons are unintuitive, difficult, moraly revolting. I don't think ND is interested anylonger in making such games. Where the lesson in the end is: murder is difficult but just foresake some part of your humanity, become a monster, do the most horrible acts and live happier for it.

Don't get me wrong, murder is almost always wrong and almost always scarring. Any balanced human being would agree with that. But perhaps playing as a balanced human being, who in the end always learns the right lesson, is boring. I would find it much more interesting and engaging to play as a psychopath who over time loses remorse over torture and killing, lives happy and walks away with the completely wrong lesson.

Kind of what happened in TLoU part 1. Joel is for all intents and purposes a shitty person (how Tess put it). He lived part of the apocalyps as hunter scum. He kills all the good guys and even gravely betrays the trust of his daughter (Ellie of course). And then he walks away with her, to live a peaceful happy life in Jackson.

But suddenly, in Part 2, everything is different. Suddenly people get what they diserve. And many charakters really had it coming. I want a cruel world where injustice wins. In Part 2 some cosmic forces, or karma or whatever is really at it. And everybody seems to get what they deserve. That is kiddy and boring.

I might be on the wrong track with the following, but I think if you subscribe to a certain ideology and are of a certain mindset, game like that, games that I want, cannot be made. And ND at the moment is in a headspace where creating something like I described above seems impossible.

The TLoU2 is deeper than most games. Sure. But it did not go far enough for me by a long shot. Part 1 excelled in comparison. And this describes a downward trajectory ND might be on.



Savage starlight is what I'm hoping for, but if ND can make a stream punk FPS, I'm down for that too. They've done a variety of games in genes, I would like to see what they can accomplish in a FPS games.

I'm just hoping if Druckman is involved, he can keep things light. TLOU2 is so far on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to their early days of jak and faster and crash.



For me, ND are too talented to be stuck working in the gameplay constraights of Uncharted or TLOU2 for 2 decades. They have nothing else to prove with either franchise and should instead focus on bringing something new to the industry,

Bend should work on the next uncharted (2023) and ND should only really do one final none numbered expansion to TLOU based on 2's engine, which introduces a deep multiplayer and a new shorter campaign (2022)



JuliusHackebeil said:
Dante9 said:

The thing is, some things just can't really be justified as a good thing, no matter how you look at them. Torturing or killing someone may get you results, but they're still a shitty and awful thing to do to anyone, I don't think there's really a discussion to be had here in that regard. It's just about to what lengths one is willing to go to to achieve something. There's a price to pay.

Also, like you said yourself, there's trauma involved for all parties. Unless you're a psychopath of some kind, doing brutal things to other people will screw with your mental health, even if it felt justified at the time. People don't really think about this stuff because in most games, you just slaughter people in the hundreds without batting an eye. It's just a game mechanic. TLOU is trying to address what consequences it would have on you in real life. It IS pretty deep indeed.

I'm trying to frame this in regards to what I want from ND in their next game, so that it is not too far off topic.

I think there is a somewhat discussion to be had about murder and torture being a good, or bad thing. Sure, we all see those things as bad, but this does not mean I cannot consume stuff (like video games) where the lessons are unintuitive, difficult, moraly revolting. I don't think ND is interested anylonger in making such games. Where the lesson in the end is: murder is difficult but just foresake some part of your humanity, become a monster, do the most horrible acts and live happier for it.

Don't get me wrong, murder is almost always wrong and almost always scarring. Any balanced human being would agree with that. But perhaps playing as a balanced human being, who in the end always learns the right lesson, is boring. I would find it much more interesting and engaging to play as a psychopath who over time loses remorse over torture and killing, lives happy and walks away with the completely wrong lesson.

Kind of what happened in TLoU part 1. Joel is for all intents and purposes a shitty person (how Tess put it). He lived part of the apocalyps as hunter scum. He kills all the good guys and even gravely betrays the trust of his daughter (Ellie of course). And then he walks away with her, to live a peaceful happy life in Jackson.

But suddenly, in Part 2, everything is different. Suddenly people get what they diserve. And many charakters really had it coming. I want a cruel world where injustice wins. In Part 2 some cosmic forces, or karma or whatever is really at it. And everybody seems to get what they deserve. That is kiddy and boring.

I might be on the wrong track with the following, but I think if you subscribe to a certain ideology and are of a certain mindset, game like that, games that I want, cannot be made. And ND at the moment is in a headspace where creating something like I described above seems impossible.

The TLoU2 is deeper than most games. Sure. But it did not go far enough for me by a long shot. Part 1 excelled in comparison. And this describes a downward trajectory ND might be on.

Okay, I now have a better grasp of where you're coming from and what it is that you would like to see.

However, I think that most "normal" games actually are already giving you what you are looking for. Just kill everything that comes in your way to reach your goals and live on happily, without giving it a second thought. Very few games try to offer any kind of moral pondering whatsoever, it's just kill X to get Y. Totally psychopathic behavior with impunity, when you think about it. To me, *that's* boring compared to what TLOU has been offering lately.

The shittiness was acknowledged in part one and part two did not drop it, but rather expanded on it. So much so in fact, that many people were completely turned off, they don't want to feel all these shitty feelings one way or the other. They want clear cut good and bad and their favorites to live on forever. How dare someone suggest that their favorites may actually be kind of bad and perhaps deserve something not so good.

Many people had it coming but some did not so much, just like in real life. Injustices were everywhere, including the fates of some main characters. People that once were nice and balanced became unhinged and consumed by their worst aspects. And in some cases, lessons were not learned until it was too late, if at all. It's complicated. Good stuff.

Yeah, I don't know what to tell you, man :) We just must have very different lenses on when playing these games.

I'd be interested to see what a game would look like if it had exactly what you are looking for here. Are there games that work for you in this regard, that you could give as an example?