Dante9 said:
JuliusHackebeil said:
And I really think this is something I cannot overlook. It is kiddy, but with a dark facade. And I fear their next game is goint to be similar in this regard. That there is no question about how to be good. Sure, for their next game I don't expect a clear cut villain and a clear cut good guy ptotagonist. But I fully expect that ND will carefully portray the bad stuff as bad and the good stuff as good, so that everybody knows how to be a goody two shoes. And that revenge is always bad. And that you have to forgive yourself and others to start healing. Such deep.
|
The thing is, some things just can't really be justified as a good thing, no matter how you look at them. Torturing or killing someone may get you results, but they're still a shitty and awful thing to do to anyone, I don't think there's really a discussion to be had here in that regard. It's just about to what lengths one is willing to go to to achieve something. There's a price to pay.
Also, like you said yourself, there's trauma involved for all parties. Unless you're a psychopath of some kind, doing brutal things to other people will screw with your mental health, even if it felt justified at the time. People don't really think about this stuff because in most games, you just slaughter people in the hundreds without batting an eye. It's just a game mechanic. TLOU is trying to address what consequences it would have on you in real life. It IS pretty deep indeed.
|
I'm trying to frame this in regards to what I want from ND in their next game, so that it is not too far off topic.
I think there is a somewhat discussion to be had about murder and torture being a good, or bad thing. Sure, we all see those things as bad, but this does not mean I cannot consume stuff (like video games) where the lessons are unintuitive, difficult, moraly revolting. I don't think ND is interested anylonger in making such games. Where the lesson in the end is: murder is difficult but just foresake some part of your humanity, become a monster, do the most horrible acts and live happier for it.
Don't get me wrong, murder is almost always wrong and almost always scarring. Any balanced human being would agree with that. But perhaps playing as a balanced human being, who in the end always learns the right lesson, is boring. I would find it much more interesting and engaging to play as a psychopath who over time loses remorse over torture and killing, lives happy and walks away with the completely wrong lesson.
Kind of what happened in TLoU part 1. Joel is for all intents and purposes a shitty person (how Tess put it). He lived part of the apocalyps as hunter scum. He kills all the good guys and even gravely betrays the trust of his daughter (Ellie of course). And then he walks away with her, to live a peaceful happy life in Jackson.
But suddenly, in Part 2, everything is different. Suddenly people get what they diserve. And many charakters really had it coming. I want a cruel world where injustice wins. In Part 2 some cosmic forces, or karma or whatever is really at it. And everybody seems to get what they deserve. That is kiddy and boring.
I might be on the wrong track with the following, but I think if you subscribe to a certain ideology and are of a certain mindset, game like that, games that I want, cannot be made. And ND at the moment is in a headspace where creating something like I described above seems impossible.
The TLoU2 is deeper than most games. Sure. But it did not go far enough for me by a long shot. Part 1 excelled in comparison. And this describes a downward trajectory ND might be on.