Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Teardown Video

https://youtu.be/9igB4kk67hE

DF with their thoughts on the teardown. Impressed with the cooling and dust management. Reaffirm their presumption that the PS5 costs less to manufacture despite its larger size. Some interesting speculation in the comments too about the possibilities that Wifi 6 and Bluetooth 5.1 could provide for things like PSVR2.



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TallSilhouette said:

Some interesting speculation in the comments too about the possibilities that Wifi 6 and Bluetooth 5.1 could provide for things like PSVR2.

Theoretical max. Wifi 6 bandwidth is 9.6 Gb/s, in reality probably even less (especially if other Wifi devices are in the same room). Could work for wireless VR, but wouldn't leave much room for a resolution bump for PSVR2.

Other wireless adapters for VR (DisplayLink, Vive) already have a max. bandwidth of 24 Gb/s:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/htc-vive-wireless-adapter,5857.html



Conina said:
TallSilhouette said:

Some interesting speculation in the comments too about the possibilities that Wifi 6 and Bluetooth 5.1 could provide for things like PSVR2.

Theoretical max. Wifi 6 bandwidth is 9.6 Gb/s, in reality probably even less (especially if other Wifi devices are in the same room). Could work for wireless VR, but wouldn't leave much room for a resolution bump for PSVR2.

Other wireless adapters for VR (DisplayLink, Vive) already have a max. bandwidth of 24 Gb/s:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/htc-vive-wireless-adapter,5857.html

If the io throughput speeds is 9 gb/s, how does the bandwidth being roughtly the same affect things?



Conina said:
Burning Typhoon said:

The PS3 was my favorite console, ever.  My biggest issue with the PS4 is getting all those re-releases. GTAV, Ultra Street Fighter 4, Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, The Last of Us, Uncharted 1-3, Beyond: Two Souls, Heavy Rain, and others.  It just didn't lend itself to feeling like a real successor to me.

The same could be said about your favorite console ever:

Sly 1 - 3 HD, Jak 1 - 3 HD, Ratchet & Clank 1 - 3 HD, God of War 1 + 2 HD, MGS 2 + 3 + Peacewalker HD, Devil May Cry 1 - 3 HD, Hitman 1 - 3 HD, ICO HD, Shadow of the Colossus HD, Zone of the Enders 1 + 2 HD, Silent Hill 2 + 3 HD, Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 + 2.5, Prince of Persia SoT Trilogy HD, Wipeout HD Fury, Splinter Cell 1 - 3 HD, SingStar HD, Lemmings HD, Beyond Good & Evil HD, Okami HD, Resident Evil 0 + 1 + 4 + Veronica HD,  Rayman 3 HD, Killzone HD, Oddworld games HD,...

I'll just say that the PS4 had an issue of not having any killer apps that weren't already on PS3, early on.  When The Last of Us is a pack-in with the console, it isn't a good look.  You're naming off games, but I was naming off stuff in my actual collection, and I didn't name everything at that.  Zone of the Enders 2 is on PS4, and in my collection.  I didn't name it because it felt like a game that had a place on PS4.  Not even the PS3 version was just a simple port, the game was sharper, and ran at 60fps.  Then the Jak collection is also on PS4, Which I also didn't name, because I don't own it on that platform and it's even worse than the PS3 version.

I don't think everything in that list of yours even counts.  Like, why is Wipeout HD Fury in there?  Because a few tracks got brought over from the PSP game?  I mean, if reusing a few minor assets is all it takes, why isn't Tekken 6 on your list too?  Most of the game's animations are recycled from Tekken 5 anyway.  And Resident Evil 0 & 1's a substantial increase over the originals, too.  But, some stuff like the Jak collection, shouldn't have been on PS3.



ArchangelMadzz said:
As someone who literally just tore down their PS4, like a full 100% teardown cleaned the dust and replaced the thermal paste with MX4.

I can't put into words how big of a step up in literally every department the construction of this thing is. Huge.

No more tiny blower fan.
No more tiny heatsink.
No bare, loud disk drive.
My PS4's paste was basically all gone, LIQUID METAL is crazy.

10/10 guys. really.

One thing that really pissed me off about the PS4 is how it overheated on me and died 3 separate times. Initially, I thought it was just because my roommate stored it in an area with poor ventilation. But he proved that wasn't the case. Not being able to do such a simple task as replace the thermal paste on my PS4 really killed it for me. The PS5 build looks like it's a little easier to take apart and put back together.

Anyway, how exactly did you manage to replace the thermal paste? I recently attempted a teardown of my brother's PS4 Slim, and found I would have needed to grind some bolts away just to get at the motherboard. It's at that point that I gave up.

iron_megalith said:

That thing is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY.

What surprised me more is their ballsy move of using Liquid Metal A lot of things can go wrong with the application.. Although they're not the first manufacturer to ship units with LM, but this is a very welcoming change. Now it makes more sense as to why people were saying the system was super quiet. Better TIM means and a capable cooling solution should mean it doesn't need to ramp up the fans too much.

Also that foam barrier is a page taken out of the laptop overclockers. I was planning to do this on an Alienware 17 R5 2 years ago but it was difficult to find a good foam to use since you can't have it too porous otherwise the potential LM beads will slip through and short your board. You also can't have it to stiff otherwise it will push up the IHS and shit mounting pressure will screw your setup.

Now if they use a good quality Nickel plated IHS and the procedures of application is very good, this thing will last the console's lifetime. If Sony succeeds, here's hoping more manufacturers make this a standard and portal devices like gaming phones and the Nintento Switch follow suit. The latter is a pipe dream since portable devices have inconsistent mounting pressures and gets jostled around too much which could cause failure.

Wait, are you saying that the PS5 has some sort of liquid beads that can potentially slip through foam and brick it? That sounds like a nightmare for longevity. All I want is a gaming system that is reliable, and that I can fix myself. That's why I'm going PC this upcoming gen.



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

 

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Cerebralbore101 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:
As someone who literally just tore down their PS4, like a full 100% teardown cleaned the dust and replaced the thermal paste with MX4.

I can't put into words how big of a step up in literally every department the construction of this thing is. Huge.

No more tiny blower fan.
No more tiny heatsink.
No bare, loud disk drive.
My PS4's paste was basically all gone, LIQUID METAL is crazy.

10/10 guys. really.

One thing that really pissed me off about the PS4 is how it overheated on me and died 3 separate times. Initially, I thought it was just because my roommate stored it in an area with poor ventilation. But he proved that wasn't the case. Not being able to do such a simple task as replace the thermal paste on my PS4 really killed it for me. The PS5 build looks like it's a little easier to take apart and put back together.

Anyway, how exactly did you manage to replace the thermal paste? I recently attempted a teardown of my brother's PS4 Slim, and found I would have needed to grind some bolts away just to get at the motherboard. It's at that point that I gave up.

iron_megalith said:

That thing is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY.

What surprised me more is their ballsy move of using Liquid Metal A lot of things can go wrong with the application.. Although they're not the first manufacturer to ship units with LM, but this is a very welcoming change. Now it makes more sense as to why people were saying the system was super quiet. Better TIM means and a capable cooling solution should mean it doesn't need to ramp up the fans too much.

Also that foam barrier is a page taken out of the laptop overclockers. I was planning to do this on an Alienware 17 R5 2 years ago but it was difficult to find a good foam to use since you can't have it too porous otherwise the potential LM beads will slip through and short your board. You also can't have it to stiff otherwise it will push up the IHS and shit mounting pressure will screw your setup.

Now if they use a good quality Nickel plated IHS and the procedures of application is very good, this thing will last the console's lifetime. If Sony succeeds, here's hoping more manufacturers make this a standard and portal devices like gaming phones and the Nintento Switch follow suit. The latter is a pipe dream since portable devices have inconsistent mounting pressures and gets jostled around too much which could cause failure.

Wait, are you saying that the PS5 has some sort of liquid beads that can potentially slip through foam and brick it? That sounds like a nightmare for longevity. All I want is a gaming system that is reliable, and that I can fix myself. That's why I'm going PC this upcoming gen.

From what I know it is possible to reapply the thermal paste on PS4, and PS5 cooling solution is already in use on PC.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

KratosLives said:
Conina said:

Theoretical max. Wifi 6 bandwidth is 9.6 Gb/s, in reality probably even less (especially if other Wifi devices are in the same room). Could work for wireless VR, but wouldn't leave much room for a resolution bump for PSVR2.

If the io throughput speeds is 9 gb/s, how does the bandwidth being roughtly the same affect things?

As I wrote, you will probably get less than 9.6 Gbps in most rooms due to interferences of other WiFi devices.

I'm sure if Sony wants a wireless VR solution via WiFi 6, they want it to run flawlessly for the majority of PSVR users... so they won't expect 9 Gbps or even 8 Gbps, probably more in the 6 - 7 Gbps area to be on the safe site. And to avoid latency issues, sending an uncompressed video to the headset would be preferable.

For PSVR1 games that would be fine, since an uncompressed 1920x1080 video with 8-bit per color + 120 Hz only needs 6 Gb/s. Even a HDR 1920x1080 video with 10-bit per color + 120 Hz could still work in some rooms (but could already problematic in other rooms:

It would be nice if Sony maxed out PSVR1 games on PS5. Some of them are sub-1080p on PS4 Pro and most of them are under 120 Hz. With additional rendering in higher resolutions and then downsampling to 1920x1080 (this resolution scaling is already supported by SteamVR and improves the image quality) the improvements could be huge, even with a PSVR1 connected to the PS5.

But what improvements would PSVR2 have over PSVR1 on PS5? Obviously a panel with higher resolution would be the biggest improvement for the image quality... This would also allow a bigger field of view without a worse pixel density. And I hope that Sony stays at 120 Hz and adds HDR 10-bit for VR games.

Depending on the resolution bump of the headset-panel WiFi 6 wouldn't be fast enough in most cases:

So if a cable means much better image quality compared to wireless compromises, I stay wired.



Cerebralbore101 said:
iron_megalith said:

That thing is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY.

What surprised me more is their ballsy move of using Liquid Metal A lot of things can go wrong with the application.. Although they're not the first manufacturer to ship units with LM, but this is a very welcoming change. Now it makes more sense as to why people were saying the system was super quiet. Better TIM means and a capable cooling solution should mean it doesn't need to ramp up the fans too much.

Also that foam barrier is a page taken out of the laptop overclockers. I was planning to do this on an Alienware 17 R5 2 years ago but it was difficult to find a good foam to use since you can't have it too porous otherwise the potential LM beads will slip through and short your board. You also can't have it to stiff otherwise it will push up the IHS and shit mounting pressure will screw your setup.

Now if they use a good quality Nickel plated IHS and the procedures of application is very good, this thing will last the console's lifetime. If Sony succeeds, here's hoping more manufacturers make this a standard and portal devices like gaming phones and the Nintento Switch follow suit. The latter is a pipe dream since portable devices have inconsistent mounting pressures and gets jostled around too much which could cause failure.

Wait, are you saying that the PS5 has some sort of liquid beads that can potentially slip through foam and brick it? That sounds like a nightmare for longevity. All I want is a gaming system that is reliable, and that I can fix myself. That's why I'm going PC this upcoming gen.

That's the thing with Liquid Metal. It acts kinda like a liquid. That's why for laptop overclockers who want to really do LM on their laptops, they have to contain any potential spills by applying a electrical tape barrier or a foam barrier. For PS5, there's only going to be a small percentage of users that will be moving this around. It's not a portable laptop. And even if they do, it seems that Sony created barrier around it. Only time will tell if it was designed well but that can be a potential point of failure if not handled properly. Spills happening in a properly applied LM is very small.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 17 October 2020

Conina said:
KratosLives said:

If the io throughput speeds is 9 gb/s, how does the bandwidth being roughtly the same affect things?

As I wrote, you will probably get less than 9.6 Gbps in most rooms due to interferences of other WiFi devices.

I'm sure if Sony wants a wireless VR solution via WiFi 6, they want it to run flawlessly for the majority of PSVR users... so they won't expect 9 Gbps or even 8 Gbps, probably more in the 6 - 7 Gbps area to be on the safe site. And to avoid latency issues, sending an uncompressed video to the headset would be preferable.

For PSVR1 games that would be fine, since an uncompressed 1920x1080 video with 8-bit per color + 120 Hz only needs 6 Gb/s. Even a HDR 1920x1080 video with 10-bit per color + 120 Hz could still work in some rooms (but could already problematic in other rooms:

It would be nice if Sony maxed out PSVR1 games on PS5. Some of them are sub-1080p on PS4 Pro and most of them are under 120 Hz. With additional rendering in higher resolutions and then downsampling to 1920x1080 (this resolution scaling is already supported by SteamVR and improves the image quality) the improvements could be huge, even with a PSVR1 connected to the PS5.

But what improvements would PSVR2 have over PSVR1 on PS5? Obviously a panel with higher resolution would be the biggest improvement for the image quality... This would also allow a bigger field of view without a worse pixel density. And I hope that Sony stays at 120 Hz and adds HDR 10-bit for VR games.

Depending on the resolution bump of the headset-panel WiFi 6 wouldn't be fast enough in most cases:

So if a cable means much better image quality compared to wireless compromises, I stay wired.

If Sony allow PSVR2 to be used wired for maximum performance and on battery with degraded one I certainly would prefer to be on the first, but would be good to have options anyway.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

I wonder if they could use multiple I/O channels, if they are outputting separate streams for each eye anyways?
That could use the USB connections while leaving WiFi free (or possibly just for tracking info, video being on 1-way channels)