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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why do people think the Ps5 costs more to manufacture?!

Pemalite on 14 September 2020
DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

Not exactly. - It was clear that was a hardware design goal of the original Xbox One. - To be a hands-free "Home Theater" device... And the hardware was built around that concept in mind.

The cooling in the Original VCR Xbox One was over-engineered... And the size of the device in terms of volume took advantage of that, it was a big box.

The Xbox One X on the other-hand is definitely a solid piece of engineering and the Series X takes that same concept and runs with it a little further, Microsoft has been going big on efficient cooling since the Xbox One.

But not just efficient cooling, quiet cooling... Microsoft is avoiding the use of small, high-RPM fans to cool their consoles.

Engineering wise, I think both companies have proven to be fantastic...
So yes, whilst Microsoft had their RROD debacle...
Sony had the exploding batteries debacle.
Sony had the YLOD debacle.
The PS1 disc drive issues were common as well.

Shit happens... Microsoft and Sony learn from it though and we all benefit.

How can you say X1 had a efficient cooling if they needed a case that was bigger than PS4, while weaker and having the brick outside of it? Being quieter isn`t the same as being more efficient. As I`m pretty sure efficency is measured in other means, either power consumption versus output (like a GPU) or power versus cost, etc.

I am strictly speaking from a cooler perspective here, the Playstation 4 definitely had superior hardware and a more attractive form factor, not beating around the bush or pretending otherwise.

But the cooler in the Xbox One was reliable, it was silent... Because Microsoft made a *massive* case (Which half of it was pretty much venting) that could hold allot of air and the cooler could push around allot of air to keep everything cool.

In terms of efficiency I am talking about noise pollution and thermals here, the launch Xbox One was always running cooler and quieter... And yes a large portion of that is due to the large ugly box and weaker hardware.... But it's also due to the much much much larger, higher quality cooler... Heat dissipation is definitely a function of the amount of surface area (I.E. Size of the heatsink) and air flow. (I.E. Fan)

And the Xbox One had a massive chunk of metal keeping everything cool, where Sony opted for more of a blower-design with a smaller, higher RPM fan.

Playstation 4:



Xbox One:



There are advantages to both approaches, Sony's approach means they can have a smaller form factor and they can "channel" air flow to where they want, but it does mean for a more intricate construction of the device with higher noise and potentially thermals.

Xbox's approach is cheaper, quieter and will cool everything inside the housing... Plus because the fan is larger, it will operate at a lower RPM, which should increase the longevity of the fan.


Last edited by Pemalite - on 14 September 2020

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sales2099 on 14 September 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Xbox One X whisper quiet and being a beast compared to the PS4/Pro fan being the closest thing you guys will have to Flight Simulator says otherwise ;)

Launching a year later and with a bigger chip covers the power difference, PS4Pro could have it if Sony wanted, but they wanted to launch in a year and price that Pro as design made more sense. And for the cooling yep better and more costlier nothing to do with MS team being on a different level. But sure being you, you would chose the single console you could to brag, since X1 was a laughing stock and X1S or X1SAD didn't made leap forward.

Well to be fair my example is more recent then your examples, where they are now is what matters not 7 years ago. The Xbox team learned considerably from Xbox 360 and early Xbox One hardware flaws. All in all my point is that the Xbox hardware team seems to have a better grip on things and are more efficient. Function over form, and not form over function. 



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mjk45 on 14 September 2020
Pemalite said:
DragonRouge said:

That has more to do with spending more on cooling and processing than hardware design talent.

Not exactly. - It was clear that was a hardware design goal of the original Xbox One. - To be a hands-free "Home Theater" device... And the hardware was built around that concept in mind.

The cooling in the Original VCR Xbox One was over-engineered... And the size of the device in terms of volume took advantage of that, it was a big box.

The Xbox One X on the other-hand is definitely a solid piece of engineering and the Series X takes that same concept and runs with it a little further, Microsoft has been going big on efficient cooling since the Xbox One.

But not just efficient cooling, quiet cooling... Microsoft is avoiding the use of small, high-RPM fans to cool their consoles.

Engineering wise, I think both companies have proven to be fantastic...
So yes, whilst Microsoft had their RROD debacle...
Sony had the exploding batteries debacle.
Sony had the YLOD debacle.
The PS1 disc drive issues were common as well.

Shit happens... Microsoft and Sony learn from it though and we all benefit.

What are you telling me that the PS1 wasn't meant to be placed upside down?



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NobleTeam360 on 14 September 2020

If I had to guess both will cost around the same to manufacture.



Fei-Hung on 14 September 2020

Not sure how accurate Bloomberg is but they have another rumour that Sony is having issues and up to 50% of the yeilds are defective.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/rumour_sony_forced_to_cut_ps5_production_by_4_million_units_due_to_chip_troubles

Wonder how accurate this is as the same analyst is also predicting $399 for DE and $449 for BR.

Edit to add pricing from article. 



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kazuyamishima on 15 September 2020
Fei-Hung said:

Not sure how accurate Bloomberg is but they have another rumour that Sony is having issues and up to 50% of the yeilds are defective.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/rumour_sony_forced_to_cut_ps5_production_by_4_million_units_due_to_chip_troubles

Wonder how accurate this is as the same analyst is also predicting $399 for DE and $449 for BR.

Edit to add pricing from article. 

They started with 5-6 millions, then rumours about increasing to 10 millions, now 15 millions which never heard of but then down to 11 million units (by the rumours)

Even is the rumours are correct, 11 million units is far more than the 8 millions or so that the PS4 shipped for FY 2013.

That would be INSANE!!



Pemalite on 15 September 2020

50% defective yields is stupidly high. Grain of salt with that one.



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Bofferbrauer2 on 15 September 2020
Conina said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

The SSD is the main culprit. The size is actually the same between the two (Sony calculates in Gibibytes while Microsoft used Gigabytes), but Microsoft could use cheaper chips and SSD controllers than Sony for their respective targets. Potentially by a lot considering parts get ordered way in advance. Plus Sony is using more smaller chips, which will definitely cost more than what Microsoft is using.

They are not the same.

Xbox Series X = 1 Terabyte = 1000 Gigabyte = 931 Gibibyte

PS5 = 0.825 Terabyte = 825 Gigabyte = 768 Gibibyte

Xbox Series S = 0.5 Terabyte = 500 Gigabyte = 466 Gibibyte

I thought the difference came just down to using Gibibytes and formatting, my bad then.

One thing I haven't mentioned and that nobody knows is if there's some overprovisioning, and then to what extend, to keep the performance high even when the storage is pretty full on both Xnox and PS5. Guess that's something we'll only find out from a teardown after release...



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EricHiggin on 15 September 2020
drkohler said:
EricHiggin said:

I'd guess the SSD.

Your guess is largely wrong. There is one factor, the cost of the PS5 ssd. This basically is 12 generic, lower speed 512GBit nvrams. If you check the semiconductor spot market (where neither Sony nor MS buys its stuff because too expensive), that's probably around $24 (on good day) - $30. That is roughly the manufacturing cost. The other factor that drives costs is the develoment of  the entire I/O-system. The whole data chain in the SoC plus the front-end ssd controller (a rather "cheap" custom one as there is no dram memory involved, that sits in the PS5 SoC as sram).

How much does the second factor add to the cost of the ssd? Roll the dices, only Sony knows. If it worked the first try, add $100M, if it was a total mess, add $500M. So for 50M consoles, add $2-$10 to the ssd cost. Then add the usual bureaucracy costs and you end up around $40 for the ssd. From a bill of material costs viewpoint, this is significantly more expensive than a low-end $23 harddisk. From a shoppers viewpoint who pays $189.99 at the store for a similar pc ssd, it's dirt cheap.

My guess that those who aren't in the know, may assume after buying their $99.99 PC SSD, that if the PS5 SSD is remarkably faster than anything on the market, that it may perhaps cost $199.99 or more, making it more more expensive than the XBSX, has no merit?

I'd assume you misunderstand where I'm coming from, or maybe I really am missing something. 



Fei-Hung on 15 September 2020
EricHiggin said:
drkohler said:

Your guess is largely wrong. There is one factor, the cost of the PS5 ssd. This basically is 12 generic, lower speed 512GBit nvrams. If you check the semiconductor spot market (where neither Sony nor MS buys its stuff because too expensive), that's probably around $24 (on good day) - $30. That is roughly the manufacturing cost. The other factor that drives costs is the develoment of  the entire I/O-system. The whole data chain in the SoC plus the front-end ssd controller (a rather "cheap" custom one as there is no dram memory involved, that sits in the PS5 SoC as sram).

How much does the second factor add to the cost of the ssd? Roll the dices, only Sony knows. If it worked the first try, add $100M, if it was a total mess, add $500M. So for 50M consoles, add $2-$10 to the ssd cost. Then add the usual bureaucracy costs and you end up around $40 for the ssd. From a bill of material costs viewpoint, this is significantly more expensive than a low-end $23 harddisk. From a shoppers viewpoint who pays $189.99 at the store for a similar pc ssd, it's dirt cheap.

My guess that those who aren't in the know, may assume after buying their $99.99 PC SSD, that if the PS5 SSD is remarkably faster than anything on the market, that it may perhaps cost $199.99 or more, making it more more expensive than the XBSX, has no merit?

I'd assume you misunderstand where I'm coming from, or maybe I really am missing something. 

The $199 was the suggested rrp for xbox x series SSD. I think someone mentioned earlier the cost of SSD for these Ssds is no where near as high for Sony and MS and the cost difference for both might be negligible as one has more memory whilst the other has a custom IO. 

I'm hoping they release a teardown video. It's nice to see the innards of these things.