Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why do people think the Ps5 costs more to manufacture?!

DonFerrari said:

It is injeted plastic, I don't think it will cost as much as you think it will. And Not sure why you think it is extra casing just because it have a lot of curves and possibly a little more volume than Series X. We have plenty electronics with bigger size and oddier style still it isn't the plastic that make the cost grow.

I have no clue what you wrote here.

The question was "Why don't they use an external ps?" and I answered that question.

Last edited by drkohler - on 13 September 2020

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You are right, the PS5 is not more expensive to make. But its not much cheaper either. I am guessing here is like a $30-$40 difference between the cost of the PS5 vs that of the XSX.

APU, RAMand the SSD (yes the SSD) are all going to be more expensive on the XSX than the PS5. As for the cooling solution, the PS5 could be more expensive, but when looking at that kinda hardware, more expensive would be like saying $15 vs $18.

Actually, maybe not the SSD... 

Last edited by Intrinsic - on 14 September 2020

Probably all the fuss that was made over the SSD and controller.



Honestly, it just sounds like wishful thinking from some people.

Bloomberg reported that Sony is "struggling" to keep PS5 BOM around $450, citing scarce components driving up the cost, which means the intended BOM could actually be lower, and this was before anybody knew about the PS5 DE. I think Sony producing 10 Million units by the end of the year means they got the BOM down. 

Last edited by PotentHerbs - on 14 September 2020

PotentHerbs said:

Honestly, it just sounds like wishful thinking from some people.

Bloomberg reported that Sony is "struggling" to keep PS5 BOM around $450,

Yes and what an idiotic piece of "journalism" that was.

Do you really, really think that MS or Sony have ordered their parts early this year?

Nobody at Sony/MS gives a shit about this year's prices of semiconductors and what not. Both have made reservation/orders possibly around 2018 or early 2019 (the ram for the X360 was ordered three years before production start, for example).

There are laws in mass manufacturing, and those laws were probably in place when Ford started up his first conveyor belt for the Model T.



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PotentHerbs said:

Honestly, it just sounds like wishful thinking from some people.

Bloomberg reported that Sony is "struggling" to keep PS5 BOM around $450, citing scarce components driving up the cost, which means the intended BOM could actually be lower, and this was before anybody knew about the PS5 DE. I think Sony producing 10 Million units by the end of the year means they got the BOM down. 

This makes sense to me.
If your struggleing to hit intended BOM costs, you dont suddenly increase production aims.
Obviously something fell through, and they decided to make more.



Fei-Hung said:

First of all let me apologise as I won't be replying much on the thread as I read more and comment less as you can see from my post history. However, reading across forums this topic has been going back and forward and many people believe the Ps5 will cost more to develop.

I'm not an industry insider but I think I have a good general understanding of how business works and what costs more and what costs less and some of the arguments don't make sense to me. 

This is not about hate or picking sides about which is better. This is strictly about getting a better understanding of why one consoles may cost more than the other to develop so we can all hopefully learn a bit more from those who are more tech savvy. 

From my basic understanding of consoles, I believe the 5 most expensive components that make up the price are:

1) amd processors

2) RAM

3) cooling solution 

4) SSD

5) controller

AMD processor cost

mfrom what I've read so far, the x1sx has 30% more CU that will probably increase the cost of the X1sx whilst the argument for the ps5 is the higher clock rates will increase yield deficiency and Sony will have to eat up the cost. However, everything we've heard so far poibts to yields being great for the ps5. The difference in cost surely is massively in favour for the ps5 as having 30% more CUs won't come at a $5-10 difference will it?! Also, correct me if I'm wrong but more CUs also could mean higher yield deficiencies and we've heard nothing from the xbox camp to say otherwise. 

Result: cheaper for ps5

RAM: same ram, but faster on the x1sx. 

Result: same for both or near enough the same

Cooling solution: x1x won't go with a cheap solution. Possibly use the same colling solution as the X1X. Ps5 won't use mercury cooling, but cheaper alternative with a casing they have designed. 

Result: cheaper on x1sx, but will it really be $40-50 more expensive?! 

SSD: my understanding is they both use the same SSD, but how it connects is different. Ps5 has more lanes and esram I think. The tech used isn't new and expensive, its been out together by existing tech. The Esram is probably the cost differentiator, but then the xb1sx is paying for an additional 175GB of SSD. 

Result: in my head at least anyway, the x1sx as the cost of the additional 175gb will out weigh the cost of the esram and other bits. 

Controller: people assume there is a lot of new tech in the dual sense, but in reality it's just a DS4 with a cheap ass mic that they usually throw in for free in the earphones and they have replaces the rumble with haptic feedback. Everything else is from the DS4, and the haptic feedback alone is less new tech than going from DS3 to DS4, which had the light bar, touch controller, new rumble, speaker and headphone jack. 

Results: same as they are both using mostly same tech

Outside of these differences I think there are 2 more factors to take into consideration:

Manufacturing: we know Sony not so long ago finished building their own state of the art manufacting factory. If sony is building a lot of these themselves they will save massively on manufacturing. Some how I find it hard to believe they would build this facility for the ps4 knowing the ps5 is coming out. 

Result: cheaper for sony

Bulk buying: the ps5 will be ordering the same of everything with the exception of the disc drive. 10 million orders for the same ram, sad, processor etc. MS on the other hand are ordering in smaller figures for two separate machines and at least 3 different types of Ram. They won't have the bulk buying power that Sony do. 

Result: cheaper for sony

Overall: everything points to a cheaper cost to Sony. 

Again people, this is not about console waring, this is about understanding where the costs might be for either machine and why. 

Thanks :) 

The SSD is the main culprit. The size is actually the same between the two (Sony calculates in Gibibytes while Microsoft used Gigabytes), but Microsoft could use cheaper chips and SSD controllers than Sony for their respective targets. Potentially by a lot considering parts get ordered way in advance. Plus Sony is using more smaller chips, which will definitely cost more than what Microsoft is using.

We don't know how big the main chip in the PS5 actually will be. Microsoft trimmed down RDNA2 and Zen 2 quite a bit to fit into 360mm2 (the much smaller RX 5700 already uses 251mm2 on the same process node - and that's without a CPU), so if Sony doesn't trim as aggressively, the chip size could actually end up being roughly the same between the two. Also, Sony clocked the GPU very high, so this could very much negatively affect the yield rate (the number of chips who actually can achieve the specs), making it more expensive than it's raw size might suggest.

For the RAM, as Permalite pointed out, the PCB will need more layers for the 320bit connection of the faster connected chips. Why Microsoft didn't connect them all under the same bus is still a mystery for me though, but I think the slower one is probably mainly used by the OS, which doesn't need such fast memory.

Finally, there's the unknown of any of them wanting to sell the console at a loss, and if, at how much loss. So only time will tell what the costs and the price of the PS5 will be.

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - 6 days ago

Forgot about the breakout box. Wonder what Sony is planning to do since the biggest piece of feedback they got in relation to their vr was cables due to breakout box. Especially if it's wireless, will they be adding other tech onto the ps5 or is the tech already designed and implemented. I remember Cerny saying something during the road to ps5 presentation.

Also, going forward, it will be interesting to see who can go into the black quicker. Surely the design on the consoles may dictate how quick they can reduce cost, not just the components.



Whoever said life to be like a box of chocolates clearly didn't know what he was talking about. 

Life is more like a game of bumper cars. At every turn there is a possibility you will get screwed.

drkohler said:
DonFerrari said:

It is injeted plastic, I don't think it will cost as much as you think it will. And Not sure why you think it is extra casing just because it have a lot of curves and possibly a little more volume than Series X. We have plenty electronics with bigger size and oddier style still it isn't the plastic that make the cost grow.

I have no clue what you wrote here.

The question was "Why don't they use an external ps?" and I answered that question.

Owww my bad. I thought it was a discussion on PS4 having a bigger and curvish design. Probably external PS would save some bucks in the start due to cooling. Still I always prefered being able to use any generic cable for power and video on my PS consoles.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Cooling solution isn't going to be much of the cost for either of them.

The SSD is not the same. The PS5 SSD is very custom. But it's custom in a way that it's lower cost than the specs would suggest. There's a lot of custom I/O here.

Controller is more expensive. It isn't just the DS4 with some small upgrades. There's whole new mechanisms for the triggers and the haptics. A larger battery.

Still the XSX is a bit more expensive to produce.