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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why do people think the Ps5 costs more to manufacture?!

Pemalite on 15 September 2020
DonFerrari said:

Since it will be more on semanthics... Since yes I can agree that the cooling solution of X1X (and possibly X1) were stronger and quieter (but don't know about the power drain or cost) we can certainly say it is more effective or stronger, efficiency is something we can't directly calculate. Anyway as you said both done the job and certainly since a very good portion of gamers consider the noise a relevant point (I don't, while playing it never bothered me, although my fat PS4 is quite noisy even on home when my son is using - possibly needing some cleaning and perhaps thermal paste replacement) I can concede that the cooling solution on Xbox was superior this gen (and well it is possible to be superior on next gen since we already know XSX is improved over the X1X and PS5 even though said is improved we don't know how much, and well it would take a major improvement to get close to XSX).

If the cooling is quieter and more effective, then the cooling solution is more efficient. - And the Xbox One, One S, One X have definitely had the better cooling solution over it's competitors.

I am with you, the noise isn't an issue for me personally, I am going to have the volume up anyway, but a quieter system is still advantageous.

Sony will have improved it's cooling for next gen, the Playstation 4 was a step up over the Playstation 3 for example, no reason not to expect improvements again with the next successor.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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DonFerrari on 15 September 2020
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

Since it will be more on semanthics... Since yes I can agree that the cooling solution of X1X (and possibly X1) were stronger and quieter (but don't know about the power drain or cost) we can certainly say it is more effective or stronger, efficiency is something we can't directly calculate. Anyway as you said both done the job and certainly since a very good portion of gamers consider the noise a relevant point (I don't, while playing it never bothered me, although my fat PS4 is quite noisy even on home when my son is using - possibly needing some cleaning and perhaps thermal paste replacement) I can concede that the cooling solution on Xbox was superior this gen (and well it is possible to be superior on next gen since we already know XSX is improved over the X1X and PS5 even though said is improved we don't know how much, and well it would take a major improvement to get close to XSX).

If the cooling is quieter and more effective, then the cooling solution is more efficient. - And the Xbox One, One S, One X have definitely had the better cooling solution over it's competitors.

I am with you, the noise isn't an issue for me personally, I am going to have the volume up anyway, but a quieter system is still advantageous.

Sony will have improved it's cooling for next gen, the Playstation 4 was a step up over the Playstation 3 for example, no reason not to expect improvements again with the next successor.

I sure do expect PS5 to improve the cooling compared to PS4, but for it to reach XSX it would need to improve by a very big amount compared to the small improvement XSX needed compared to X1X.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

hinch on 15 September 2020

Hopefully we get a teardown soon after tomorrow's event so we can lay this all to rest.

Still no way I believe that the PS5 costs more than XSX.



Intrinsic on 15 September 2020
Fei-Hung said:
This time tomorrow the question won't be price if they match or beat any of the Xbox SKUs, it will be how much money they are losing and how it will bring Sony to its knees. Lol

Didn't you know? Sony has been going bankrupt since 2007.

They really should just hurry up and get it over with.



Pemalite on 15 September 2020
DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

If the cooling is quieter and more effective, then the cooling solution is more efficient. - And the Xbox One, One S, One X have definitely had the better cooling solution over it's competitors.

I am with you, the noise isn't an issue for me personally, I am going to have the volume up anyway, but a quieter system is still advantageous.

Sony will have improved it's cooling for next gen, the Playstation 4 was a step up over the Playstation 3 for example, no reason not to expect improvements again with the next successor.

I sure do expect PS5 to improve the cooling compared to PS4, but for it to reach XSX it would need to improve by a very big amount compared to the small improvement XSX needed compared to X1X.

I am not willing to assert whether the Playstation 5's cooling or the Xbox Series X's cooling is superior, not until I see both machines demonstrated and analyzed.

We do know that the entire design concept of the Xbox Series X is built around the cooling... Rather than the cooling getting shoe-horned in, so to speak.

Just not enough information yet.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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DonFerrari on 16 September 2020
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

I sure do expect PS5 to improve the cooling compared to PS4, but for it to reach XSX it would need to improve by a very big amount compared to the small improvement XSX needed compared to X1X.

I am not willing to assert whether the Playstation 5's cooling or the Xbox Series X's cooling is superior, not until I see both machines demonstrated and analyzed.

We do know that the entire design concept of the Xbox Series X is built around the cooling... Rather than the cooling getting shoe-horned in, so to speak.

Just not enough information yet.

True. A good point on the PS5 case is that Cerny mentioned their cooling approach and the limit thermal design and recognizing that their previous console was noisy.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Intrinsic on 16 September 2020
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

I sure do expect PS5 to improve the cooling compared to PS4, but for it to reach XSX it would need to improve by a very big amount compared to the small improvement XSX needed compared to X1X.

I am not willing to assert whether the Playstation 5's cooling or the Xbox Series X's cooling is superior, not until I see both machines demonstrated and analyzed.

We do know that the entire design concept of the Xbox Series X is built around the cooling... Rather than the cooling getting shoe-horned in, so to speak.

Just not enough information yet.

Well... the design concept of the series X is built around its cooling. With the PS5 it's deeper than that. The entire architecture of its hardware is built around its cooling and thermal management. Hence why as Cerny said, fixed power, fixed thermals with nothing more than slight variations in thermal load based on ambient temps. The PS5 is basically a system designed to never be able to overheat.

It sure would be interesting to see though.



Pemalite on 16 September 2020
Intrinsic said:
Pemalite said:

I am not willing to assert whether the Playstation 5's cooling or the Xbox Series X's cooling is superior, not until I see both machines demonstrated and analyzed.

We do know that the entire design concept of the Xbox Series X is built around the cooling... Rather than the cooling getting shoe-horned in, so to speak.

Just not enough information yet.

Well... the design concept of the series X is built around its cooling. With the PS5 it's deeper than that. The entire architecture of its hardware is built around its cooling and thermal management. Hence why as Cerny said, fixed power, fixed thermals with nothing more than slight variations in thermal load based on ambient temps. The PS5 is basically a system designed to never be able to overheat.

It sure would be interesting to see though.

Sony and Microsoft are piggy-backing off AMD's thermal management technology.
CPU's/APU's haven't technically been able to "overheat" and fail for almost 2 decades in the PC space. - Since I think the Athlon 64/Pentium 4 days... It's one of the benefits of leveraging PC technology, lots of learned lessons... And since 2013 when the Xbox One and Playstation 4 borrowed PC technology, there has only been further improvements on this front with more fine-tuned lower-latency frequency control and power gating, Sony and Microsoft are using that obviously.

We just need more details before we can assert anything... And you know my position on Cerny, he does have a conflict of interest in this space, he needs to talk up his product, so does Phil Spencer.
Not saying either individual is right or wrong, just keep in mind their biases.

DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

I am not willing to assert whether the Playstation 5's cooling or the Xbox Series X's cooling is superior, not until I see both machines demonstrated and analyzed.

We do know that the entire design concept of the Xbox Series X is built around the cooling... Rather than the cooling getting shoe-horned in, so to speak.

Just not enough information yet.

True. A good point on the PS5 case is that Cerny mentioned their cooling approach and the limit thermal design and recognizing that their previous console was noisy.

This is what I mean, Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are constantly analyzing where they do well and where they do poorly.
They take those lessons to learn and improve, so I would fully expect the Playstation 5's cooling efficiency to be a big step up over the Playstation 4, which in turn was a marked improvement over the Playstation 3.

We consumers then benefit.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Yerm on 16 September 2020
Fei-Hung said:

From my basic understanding of consoles, I believe the 5 most expensive components that make up the price are:

1) amd processors

2) RAM

3) cooling solution 

4) SSD

5) controller

The SSD, processor, and graphics processor are the biggest contributing factors. RAM has gotten to be pretty cheap. Cooling systems *can* be expensive but rarely are on consoles. As for the controller, its all just a bunch of plastic bits over a very simple board. Your average controller costs around if not less than $20 to produce.