Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why do people think the Ps5 costs more to manufacture?!

DonFerrari said:

Since it will be more on semanthics... Since yes I can agree that the cooling solution of X1X (and possibly X1) were stronger and quieter (but don't know about the power drain or cost) we can certainly say it is more effective or stronger, efficiency is something we can't directly calculate. Anyway as you said both done the job and certainly since a very good portion of gamers consider the noise a relevant point (I don't, while playing it never bothered me, although my fat PS4 is quite noisy even on home when my son is using - possibly needing some cleaning and perhaps thermal paste replacement) I can concede that the cooling solution on Xbox was superior this gen (and well it is possible to be superior on next gen since we already know XSX is improved over the X1X and PS5 even though said is improved we don't know how much, and well it would take a major improvement to get close to XSX).

What makes it superior though? 

Speaking on function, yes, it was quieter, but it was also bigger and later on, a more expensive solution. These are both things that sony could just as easily have also done,it doesn't require any kinda engineering genius to in one case say "ok, make the case bigger and put in the biggest fin array and fan we can fit into it" and in another case to say "make the case smaller and put in a vapor chamber cooling solution".

In case A, bigger case,bigger fins,bigger fan + lower RPMs + more air volume = quieter operation. In case B, vapor chamber cooling = more expensive but faster thermal dissipation. These things ar all deterministic, ad very common. Its clear sony went a different route, and one mostly determined by staying withing a particular form and pricing factor. But at the end of the day, their cooling solution did what it was designed to do, cool the system and keep it running. If it had a RROD level thermal failure type thing then we could say it was poorly designed or bad.

This is like saying a 500HP V8 (usually between 4-6 litre engine) is better designed than a 500HP turbocharged 3.0 litre engine that has similar performance because the V8 sounds different.



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Intrinsic said:
DonFerrari said:

Since it will be more on semanthics... Since yes I can agree that the cooling solution of X1X (and possibly X1) were stronger and quieter (but don't know about the power drain or cost) we can certainly say it is more effective or stronger, efficiency is something we can't directly calculate. Anyway as you said both done the job and certainly since a very good portion of gamers consider the noise a relevant point (I don't, while playing it never bothered me, although my fat PS4 is quite noisy even on home when my son is using - possibly needing some cleaning and perhaps thermal paste replacement) I can concede that the cooling solution on Xbox was superior this gen (and well it is possible to be superior on next gen since we already know XSX is improved over the X1X and PS5 even though said is improved we don't know how much, and well it would take a major improvement to get close to XSX).

What makes it superior though? 

Speaking on function, yes, it was quieter, but it was also bigger and later on, a more expensive solution. These are both things that sony could just as easily have also done,it doesn't require any kinda engineering genius to in one case say "ok, make the case bigger and put in the biggest fin array and fan we can fit into it" and in another case to say "make the case smaller and put in a vapor chamber cooling solution".

In case A, bigger case,bigger fins,bigger fan + lower RPMs + more air volume = quieter operation. In case B, vapor chamber cooling = more expensive but faster thermal dissipation. These things ar all deterministic, ad very common. Its clear sony went a different route, and one mostly determined by staying withing a particular form and pricing factor. But at the end of the day, their cooling solution did what it was designed to do, cool the system and keep it running. If it had a RROD level thermal failure type thing then we could say it was poorly designed or bad.

This is like saying a 500HP V8 (usually between 4-6 litre engine) is better designed than a 500HP turbocharged 3.0 litre engine that has similar performance because the V8 sounds different.

Superior in keeping it cooler and with less noise, more expensive is the price to pay for it.

I didn`t say MS engineers are superior, but that the solution is better and there is no denying on technical standpoint. Sure if you want to discuss on economics it would be a different metric. Thus why I said we can`t say it is more efficient, because it is more expensive or take more space and perhaps more watts.

And no, the two solutions don`t have similar performance, they at most achieve the intended result (thus why I also said it doesn`t mean MS engineers are on another level).

Sony recognized the noise issue with PS4 and that the thermal was problematic the way consoles were designed before and that now they decided to a fix thermal draw and design the whole system around it and make it quieter. It is possible that it will be a great decision, but we need to see it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Fei-Hung said:

Not sure how accurate Bloomberg is but they have another rumour that Sony is having issues and up to 50% of the yeilds are defective.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/rumour_sony_forced_to_cut_ps5_production_by_4_million_units_due_to_chip_troubles

Wonder how accurate this is as the same analyst is also predicting $399 for DE and $449 for BR.

Edit to add pricing from article. 

Bloomberg tends to be accurate. 

But those yields are crazy bad that it's hard to believe. 

kazuyamishima said:
Fei-Hung said:

Not sure how accurate Bloomberg is but they have another rumour that Sony is having issues and up to 50% of the yeilds are defective.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/rumour_sony_forced_to_cut_ps5_production_by_4_million_units_due_to_chip_troubles

Wonder how accurate this is as the same analyst is also predicting $399 for DE and $449 for BR.

Edit to add pricing from article. 

They started with 5-6 millions, then rumours about increasing to 10 millions, now 15 millions which never heard of but then down to 11 million units (by the rumours)

Even is the rumours are correct, 11 million units is far more than the 8 millions or so that the PS4 shipped for FY 2013.

That would be INSANE!!

15 million and 10 million from earlier are different time periods.  10m is this year. 15m is by March. 



Fei-Hung said:
yvanjean said:

How stupid do you think Sony is as a company. At $399 for the all digital edition PS5, Sony will not be able to keep up to demand. Why would they hurt their bottom line when at least for this holiday season they will sell out every unit produce. 

The $399 price point is only possible if Sony is taking a loss on every unit sold. I think Sony will eventually go with $450/$499 for PS5-D/PS5. Based on current demand and popularity there simply no need to cut costs. 

Not sure how this helps the thread. Consoles generally launch at a loss with the exception on Nintendo consoles probably. What grounds are there to think sony won't be able to keep up demand or will be making such a heavy loss at $399 that they shouldn't go down the route?!

We won't know what demand is until we start seeing preorders or start seeing narrative changes that heavily favour one or the other. So far it's been back and forward, especially after the series S price reveal along with gamepass ultimate with EA. 

I think both Microsoft and Sony if they price the console at $499 are already selling at a loss. I do think that there a good possibility that Sony will go with the $399 for the digital edition. I only think Sony goes $399 if they truly feel Xbox one S is a treat. On the other hand, Sony knows they are the market leader and PS5 is by far the most popular next-gen consoles right now. If you can sell the same amount of units for $50 extra, it makes more business sense. 

Sony as a much bigger worldwide demand compared to Microsoft consoles. In Japan alone they will have to ship a million more units than Microsoft.

Besides, I was responding to a post claiming all digital PS5 would release at $299 & PS5 at $349.  



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

yvanjean said:
Fei-Hung said:

Not sure how this helps the thread. Consoles generally launch at a loss with the exception on Nintendo consoles probably. What grounds are there to think sony won't be able to keep up demand or will be making such a heavy loss at $399 that they shouldn't go down the route?!

We won't know what demand is until we start seeing preorders or start seeing narrative changes that heavily favour one or the other. So far it's been back and forward, especially after the series S price reveal along with gamepass ultimate with EA. 

I think both Microsoft and Sony if they price the console at $499 are already selling at a loss. I do think that there a good possibility that Sony will go with the $399 for the digital edition. I only think Sony goes $399 if they truly feel Xbox one S is a treat. On the other hand, Sony knows they are the market leader and PS5 is by far the most popular next-gen consoles right now. If you can sell the same amount of units for $50 extra, it makes more business sense. 

Sony as a much bigger worldwide demand compared to Microsoft consoles. In Japan alone they will have to ship a million more units than Microsoft.

Besides, I was responding to a post claiming all digital PS5 would release at $299 & PS5 at $349.  

I agree, but they also need to worry about their price helping the competitor to sell more and thus making it harder for them to sell to that crowd later on.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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Sony has responded. Either Bloomberg article was totally false, massively outdated or partially true where there are yield issues but Sony has upped production either way to hit 15 million sales.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-09-15-sony-reportedly-cuts-ps5-production-by-4m-units



Whoever said life to be like a box of chocolates clearly didn't know what he was talking about. 

Life is more like a game of bumper cars. At every turn there is a possibility you will get screwed.

Fei-Hung said:
Sony has responded. Either Bloomberg article was totally false, massively outdated or partially true where there are yield issues but Sony has upped production either way to hit 15 million sales.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-09-15-sony-reportedly-cuts-ps5-production-by-4m-units

From all we know every single shipment number were purely rumor, not a single number was ever confirmed by Sony.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

This time tomorrow the question won't be price if they match or beat any of the Xbox SKUs, it will be how much money they are losing and how it will bring Sony to its knees. Lol



Whoever said life to be like a box of chocolates clearly didn't know what he was talking about. 

Life is more like a game of bumper cars. At every turn there is a possibility you will get screwed.

Fei-Hung said:
This time tomorrow the question won't be price if they match or beat any of the Xbox SKUs, it will be how much money they are losing and how it will bring Sony to its knees. Lol

Sony announced they will close their manufacturing of TVs in Brazil, there were plenty of Nintendo fanboys on some facebook gaming page claiming that to be a sign of Sony going bankrupt.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:

Since it will be more on semanthics... Since yes I can agree that the cooling solution of X1X (and possibly X1) were stronger and quieter (but don't know about the power drain or cost) we can certainly say it is more effective or stronger, efficiency is something we can't directly calculate. Anyway as you said both done the job and certainly since a very good portion of gamers consider the noise a relevant point (I don't, while playing it never bothered me, although my fat PS4 is quite noisy even on home when my son is using - possibly needing some cleaning and perhaps thermal paste replacement) I can concede that the cooling solution on Xbox was superior this gen (and well it is possible to be superior on next gen since we already know XSX is improved over the X1X and PS5 even though said is improved we don't know how much, and well it would take a major improvement to get close to XSX).

If the cooling is quieter and more effective, then the cooling solution is more efficient. - And the Xbox One, One S, One X have definitely had the better cooling solution over it's competitors.

I am with you, the noise isn't an issue for me personally, I am going to have the volume up anyway, but a quieter system is still advantageous.

Sony will have improved it's cooling for next gen, the Playstation 4 was a step up over the Playstation 3 for example, no reason not to expect improvements again with the next successor.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--