You said stuff before starting 1. So I'll respond to each thought in order:
1) My original response wasn't written to tick you off, but simply point out how some of the language you used could be interpreted as sexist. That wasn't mean shouting at you, or calling you a sexist for the rest of your life. I was simply pointing out something I thought would be helpful for you to see, another perspective. If you don't want to change your OP language that is fine and your right.
2) I never said women murder babies for the fun of it. Women are extremely stressed before, during, and especially after the procedure. Nothing about it is fun and I never suggested women enjoy it, so please don't slander me.
3) Regarding giggling, that isn't subjective. Babies giggle in the womb, and hiccup, and jump and do all sorts of other fun things. They are figuring out life in there and all the fun little things they can do. And sadly, despite all those wonderful indications that they are human, the needle still comes.
4) Regarding the 42% that are conservative feminists... But what does that mean? My wife is a 1/2nd wave feminist, but not a 3rd wave feminist. She hates abortion as much as I do. So again, what do those 42% even mean? I read a poll recently that indicated men are, by a majority, supportive of abortion. That same poll indicated women, by a majority, aren't supportive of abortion rights. Does that mean the majority of women aren't feminists simply because they don't adhere to 3rd wave ideology? Feminism is an unclear term in today's society as to what it means.
5) I never claimed to have evidence that this site was left leaning. It's just the feel I get when reading and making posts. I could absolutely be wrong here, but it is my opinion nonetheless. And Super Court Justices aren't the best proof of a sites political leaning. The electorate are usually okay with whoever a SC nominee is, as they aren't as politically charged as Congress or Executive members. That hearing was about personal stuff, and hardly about political issues or prior court cases, so people had to make a gut decision about who to believe. One side had no witnesses or evidence. It's innocent until proven guilty here, thankfully.
6) I won't pretend to know anything about waves of feminism in other countries. I speak purely on an American perspective.
Responding to these:
1) Most feminists get called sexists often just because. I have a thick skin about such claims, so no worries! I also have no interest in apologizing for voicing rational concerns.
2 & 3) I've recently discussed my opinions about abortion at some length over on the morality thread and don't really feel up for a tense and exhausting repeat of that same convo here, so I think I'll just leave the abortion topic be.
4) Here you've touched on something I agree is valid: so many American women today consider themselves feminists that the term has become almost meaningless and unhelpful by itself. It's probably more useful to discuss specific ideas at this point than it is to discuss feminism conceptually in the abstract.
That said, to at least try and clarify the complexities of the various feminist waves a bit if I can, let me here momentarily focus on the contours of the second feminist wave, which we might consider essentially the politics of '70s era women's activists or Baby Boomer feminism if you will. That wasn't/isn't just one thing, one school of thought. It might in fact be most accurate to think of that era's feminists as being composed of two largely separate and distinct movements: the liberal feminists on the one hand, who were mostly older, wealthier, and mainly concerned with advancing the interests of women in the legal arena, especially, though not exclusively, as it pertained to providing women with more economic opportunities...and the radical feminists on the other hand, who were mostly younger, more middle class, and mainly concerned with the culture (questions like rape, marriage and family, religion, lesbians, abortion, beauty culture, sexual objectification, that sort of thing) because their aim was to create a revolutionary climate rather than to simply try and reform the existing institutions of society. Within both of these concurrent movements there emerged a multitude of different little schools of thought too. There was no one thing that "liberal feminism" was per se and no one thing that "radical feminism" was either. Anyway, with respect to these two general movements, your wife sounds to me like someone who would fall into the first overall category (which would indeed represent a conservative viewpoint by today's standards; like these women were generally against abortion, against lesbians, against divorce, etc. etc.) while I'm more the latter type.
On a different tip, what's called third wave feminism, which we might essentially think of as '90s era, or Generation X feminism, is more the variety I personally grew up seeing because I grew up in the '90s. I've learned enough at this point to recognize that there was a general difference of ideals and tone. Where the second feminist wave generally featured a kind of collectivistic ethos, the kind of feminists I met in the 1990s were a highly individualistic bunch. There was almost a kind of demoralized, quasi-defeatist, non-idealistic vibe to it, much like there was to the larger youth culture of that era, as anyone who grew up back then can likely attest to. My early experience with the movement specifically was around a scene known as riot grrrl, which was a feminist underground punk scene that revolved around making and/or distributing stuff anarchist-type zines and music. My original discovery of this scene stemmed from news reports about the original Dyke March in 1993, which was my first exposure to the concept of lesbianism...and hence the first time I learned of words to describe myself. Anyway, getting back to riot grrrl, it's hard to capture what it was about because I don't think we really knew ourselves. Part of us wanted to be feminist revolutionaries, but part of us were realists and extremely skeptical about the prospects of our petty efforts yielding results, so we didn't take ourselves that seriously. Anyway, riot grrrl was just one component-part of a MUCH larger thing that was going on in society in the '90s (especially the early '90s), but it's the part I latched onto at the time. I became more disenchanted with the concept of feminism for a while after like the Spice Girls and Sex and the City took over the world in the late '90s because to me the movement had been about authenticity, being able to be myself, more than anything else and this stuff just smacked of cosmopolitan, consumerist glamorism that turned me off. I came back around in a different form much later on thanks to the internet enabling me to discover spaces like Feminist Current and "crazy" movements like Femen.
I may try and discuss my thoughts (which are mostly criticisms and objections) on the current fourth feminist wave in this country, i.e. essentially Millennial feminism, a bit later but I'm tired and want to go to bed right now.
5 & 6) I might address later. I'm exhausted right now and need to go to bed. Sorry!
Last edited by Jaicee - on 01 September 2020