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Forums - Politics Discussion - Attitudes 100 years since women's suffrage

Non-American here.

I see the US as a highly sexist country, especially when it comes to politics.

But I think Americans are generally more conservative when it comes to women’s issues on both of the US political spectrum.

I think, ironically, there’s also a lot more fear of women by men in the US.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jaicee said:

Point: It's not difficult to see patriarchal social roles for the respective sexes in what sorts of qualities people tend to admire in them respectively. People believe men are supposed to rule the world (perhaps tyrannically), head up business empires, govern religious life, and generally be active. They're supposed to be powerful, competitive, and dominant, in other words. Women, on the other hand, are really just there to be seen and to support their husbands, the women's list communicates.

Just thoughts.

On the flip side you could argue that there being less evil female dictators to "admire" is a good thing.

It's actually a pretty shameful list to be honest. One that you can't help but wonder if people voted as they did because they were worried about the "consequences" of voting differently.



Jaicee said:

(...)

Point: It's not difficult to see patriarchal social roles for the respective sexes in what sorts of qualities people tend to admire in them respectively. People believe men are supposed to rule the world (perhaps tyrannically), head up business empires, govern religious life, and generally be active. They're supposed to be powerful, competitive, and dominant, in other words. Women, on the other hand, are really just there to be seen and to support their husbands, the women's list communicates.

Just thoughts.

Men and women are different, so no surprise.

Men admire men who are good at something because that attracts women; that's what men strive for. Women admire men who are good at something because it attracts them.

Men admire women who are good-looking. Women admire women who are either good-looking because it attracts men, and/or they admire women who have had successful careers which doesn't make them dependent on men. So the perception of women overall is a bit more complex and as a result the list of women does not have as much in common as the list of men.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

Ka-pi96 said:
Jaicee said:

Point: It's not difficult to see patriarchal social roles for the respective sexes in what sorts of qualities people tend to admire in them respectively. People believe men are supposed to rule the world (perhaps tyrannically), head up business empires, govern religious life, and generally be active. They're supposed to be powerful, competitive, and dominant, in other words. Women, on the other hand, are really just there to be seen and to support their husbands, the women's list communicates.

Just thoughts.

On the flip side you could argue that there being less evil female dictators to "admire" is a good thing.

It's actually a pretty shameful list to be honest. One that you can't help but wonder if people voted as they did because they were worried about the "consequences" of voting differently.

My question would be that of why women like say Megan Rapinoe, the American soccer superstar who led the U.S. team to victory in the women's world cup last year and has accrued many other notable athletic achievements, or say Jacinda Ardern, the popular and successful prime minister of New Zealand, didn't make this list. Two male soccer players made the men's list; why not Megan Rapinoe for the women? It's not as though there just aren't any star female athletes in the world. Likewise, why do three first wives make the women's list, but not someone like Jacinda Ardern? Also, why so many dictators rather than democratic leaders on the men's list? It's not like there's a shortage to choose from!

Well, just some brief thoughts about what a more equal world might value in women and men in my view.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 03 October 2020

Nothing is treated equally anywhere in the world, whether its Western Europe or China. In general women are treated worse on many accounts and better in a few accounts. On the other hand I don't see it as my battle if I am honest, as an environmentallist I care more about things as climate change, the countless loss of biodiversity etc. than how groups are represented within our society and who has the best social standing. But that's probably because I don't know all that many people who don't have a well paying job or face a lot of discrimination. But racism and sexism are as much of a problem in NL as the USA. 

Last edited by Qwark - on 03 October 2020

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Jaicee said:
Ka-pi96 said:

On the flip side you could argue that there being less evil female dictators to "admire" is a good thing.

It's actually a pretty shameful list to be honest. One that you can't help but wonder if people voted as they did because they were worried about the "consequences" of voting differently.

My question would be that of why women like say Megan Rapinoe, the American soccer superstar who led the U.S. team to victory in the women's world cup last year and has accrued many other notable athletic achievements, or say Jacinda Ardern, the popular and successful prime minister of New Zealand, didn't make this list. Two male soccer players made the men's list; why not Megan Rapinoe for the women? It's not as though there just aren't any star female athletes in the world. Likewise, why do three first wives make the women's list, but not someone like Jacinda Ardern?

In terms of sports stars I'd say the lack of tennis players is a bigger omission. Women's tennis is a much bigger and more popular sport. I know she's not at the level she once was, but Serena Williams is still a notable omission. And in terms of more recent players, Naomi Osaka could and perhaps should have been on the list.

As for Jacinda Ardern, I've got to say I've never heard of her before. So I'd assume the small size and relative lack of importance of New Zealand is the reason there. Plus the ones that are on the list I've not heard of are from highly populous countries, so clearly population size made an impact.



Jaicee said:

My question would be that of why women like say Megan Rapinoe, the American soccer superstar who led the U.S. team to victory in the women's world cup last year and has accrued many other notable athletic achievements, or say Jacinda Ardern, the popular and successful prime minister of New Zealand, didn't make this list. Two male soccer players made the men's list; why not Megan Rapinoe for the women? It's not as though there just aren't any star female athletes in the world. Likewise, why do three first wives make the women's list, but not someone like Jacinda Ardern? Also, why so many dictators rather than democratic leaders on the men's list? It's not like there's a shortage to choose from!

Well, just some brief thoughts about what a more equal world might value in women and men in my view.

Because women who watch football tend to be much more interested in the male version of the sport.

I think your idea of an equal world is flawed, because equality doesn't mean to have the same amount of male and female football players on a couple of lists, but rather that both men and women are allowed to vote for the people who they like the most.

Also, I'd hope that you read the methodology of the survey. The first round of it was that each of the 42 participating countries nominated people; the 20 most popular choices that were nominated in at least four countries made the cut, so your Rapinoe example might not even have got recognition in four different countries whereas Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi are both global superstars with all their games being broadcasted almost everywhere on the planet. The second round of the survey asked people to give their opinion on the 20 finalists of each list; one vote for who they admire (multiple choices possible) and one vote for who they admire the most (single choice, obviously). All points added up led to the final rankings.

Ardern being from New Zealand greatly limits her chances to be internationally recognized. The reason why autocratic leaders have international appeal is that there are people in every country who'd like to see someone rule with an iron fist to push through the values they hold.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

Jaicee said:

A recent YouGov survey of 45,000 people from 42 countries and territories found the following to be the top 20 most admired men and women in the world respectively:

The World's 20 Most Admired WOMEN

1. Michelle Obama
2. Angelina Jolie
3. Queen Elizabeth II
4. Oprah Winfrey
5. Jennifer Lopez
6. Emma Watson
7. Scarlett Johansson
8. Peng Liyuan
9. Taylor Swift
10. Shakira
11. Beyonce
12. Angela Merkel
13. Hillary Clinton
14. Malala Yousafzai
15. Priyanka Chopra
16. Deepika Padukone
17. Sudha Murty
18. Greta Thunberg
19. Melania Trump
20. Ellen DeGeneres

Nice find. It is a shame, that Jacinda Ardern didn't make the list. I am a german and value her over Merkel. Apparently Margaret Thatcher is forgotten now. And as someone with scientific interest I take offense at the omission of Marie Curie.



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When women were given right to vote they helped make alcohol illegal. They aren't the smartest voter
They vote about as good as they drive.

-User was banned for this post.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 04 October 2020

sethnintendo said:

When women were given right to vote they helped make alcohol illegal. They aren't the smartest voter
They vote about as good as they drive.

-User was banned for this post.

Comments like this are why we don't get women on the board. 

And ironically, the user posting it is vehemently anti-Trump, who would overwhelmingly win reelection if women were not allowed to vote.

Also ironically prohibition was the 18th Amendment, and women's suffrage the 19th. So, at the time, women mostly couldn't vote. And, the 18th Amendment was not passed by a popular vote. It was voted on by Senators and state legislatures. Which were about 99% male.