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Forums - Politics Discussion - Attitudes 100 years since women's suffrage

JRPGfan said:

Jaicee said:

-Different expectations society has for women and men.

The man works to provide, and the woman races the family.
In denmark because of our social security net, child care, and schooling ect are all taken care off.
This means alot of women are actually in the work force (compaired to most other countries).
Why not? Why shouldn't women work too? So I'm all for this.  

That is great to read about childcare.

This is the biggest issue I see in Australia for women in terms of work equality. Childcare is so expensive and it basically forces the woman to stay home. Or one parent I guess, if you want to swing that way after the baby is a little old and isn't so dependent on the mother for milk.

The maternity leave is great here, but that essentially is a job protection measure to allow a woman to go back to their job (where as in past you would quit and have nothing to go back to), however does not solve a huge financial burden, which is childcare and which eventually forces many women to just quit their job anyway.

I am dumb founded how the government always says there is jobs out there and want people to work, yet they are holding professional women back at home. Usually when you have one child, you tend to have another shortly their after so they have a sibling. By that time a woman has significantly been out of work.

By the time they are ready to go back to work (when kids have gone to school), their skill sets have diminished. they feel worthless mentally as they know less than their work counterparts about the latest things at work. 

Now we have childcare subsidies, however they decrease as you earn more money. When you paying of a mortgage, higher tax rates, other additional taxes, private health it makes it hard to pay for childcare if you are a professional couple, if you want both to continue working. For some reason the government would rather subsidise  the people who don't want to work (yes there are people that admit that proudly). If they don't want to work they are already at home, take care of your kids.

As far as the government is concerned they should look at it from an accounting and future prospects perspective.

  • What will they get best bang for their buck spent.
  • A person that is willing to work and has a job, make sure they are back working ASAP as they pay taxes, which well pays for whatever the hell the government pretends they spend it on
  • Subsidise their childcare because you know that child will become a tax payer, because their parents will teach that child those values 



 

 

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Torillian said:
Farsala said:

There have been tons of studies on it. I am not sure if they are happier than western women, but the gap in happiness between the men and women is larger than western countries, IE: they are much happier on average.

Basically, have kids? No more job growth. Go home and take care of the house and kids.

Given how great it is to stay home, clean, and take care of kids when are you planning to transition to a house husband/dad? 

Tbh, I would love that (at least I think I would but reality is often different than you expect). Not saying women should be forced into it, but some people might prefer it.



JWeinCom said:
Torillian said:

Given how great it is to stay home, clean, and take care of kids when are you planning to transition to a house husband/dad? 

Tbh, I would love that (at least I think I would but reality is often different than you expect). Not saying women should be forced into it, but some people might prefer it.

That's true, some of either gender will want that. But everyone should have the option. Given the concept that "women are treated as lesser but they like it that way" I'm just curious whether or not Fasala has ever taken his own advice and foregone a career and financial independence for the sake of the simpler life of a house dad. 



...

kirby007 said:
can you imagine being a black woman

Can you imagine being a black woman in Russia or China?



Not being a woman myself, my ability to comment on their wellbeing is limited to what I hear from my female friends, colleagues, and family, and what I observe for myself, which will obviously constitute a mere sliver of the lived experience of being female here.

In my area, (autism advocacy) one big problem faced by women is that females on the spectrum are much less likely to get diagnosed than their male counterparts, or to get diagnosed at a later age, due to the difference in how the condition presents itself in women versus men.

This leads to autistic women having to endure more confusion, psychological distress, and misdiagnosis with other conditions; one of my ex girlfriends was misdiagnosed with bipolar and schizophrenia before they finally worked out in her 20s that she was just autistic.

Due to men being more widely diagnosed than women, my field is also highly male-dominated at present, though thankfully this is starting to change as I am seeing a generation of autistic women my age and younger who are joining the advocacy movement pushing for greater awareness and acceptance of autistic women. It's an exciting and encouraging change to watch.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 01 September 2020

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

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Nighthawk117 said:
kirby007 said:
can you imagine being a black woman

Can you imagine being a black woman in Russia or China?

I actually think its worse in china.
Russians arn't really racist from what I can see tbh. Their country is huge (in land size, and borders many countries), and they have alot of mixed in population (usually from asian countries).

Like in china I've seen pictures of show owners that put out boards saying "we dont serve foreginers, or not blacks allowed" and such.
They have a really negative attitude, towards otherness in china (mind you, I havnt been, just saying from what Ive read and seen online).



JWeinCom said:
Farsala said:

There have been tons of studies on it. I am not sure if they are happier than western women, but the gap in happiness between the men and women is larger than western countries, IE: they are much happier on average.

Basically, have kids? No more job growth. Go home and take care of the house and kids.

When I asked for evidence I wasn't looking for a yes or no, but for the actual evidence. Lol.

I take questions literally.

Here is a study that compiles other more legit studies.

https://www.academia.edu/27607213/Happiness_and_Life_Satisfaction_in_Japan_by_Gender

Some quotes to reinforce my point.

"

The World Value Survey data show for example that Japan (20.8%) ranks together with Bangladesh (16.5%), Iran (22.7%), the Philippines (15.5%), Saudi Arabia (8.6%) and Morocco (7.9%) among the lowest countries regarding “norms on gender inequality




"Tiefenbach and Kohlbacher (2013), however, find a coefficient of 0.45 (on a scale from 0-10) that lends further evidence to both, the universal finding that women are happier than men and to the country specific result that the gender gap in happiness is rather big in Japan compared to other countries"


So in terms of gender equality Japan is close to countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia. In terms of happiness though, women win by larger degree than most countries.

Torillian said:


Farsala said:

There have been tons of studies on it. I am not sure if they are happier than western women, but the gap in happiness between the men and women is larger than western countries, IE: they are much happier on average.

Basically, have kids? No more job growth. Go home and take care of the house and kids.

Given how great it is to stay home, clean, and take care of kids when are you planning to transition to a house husband/dad? 

I would like that, as I love kids and staying home. But I don't have a spouse or kids. I have taken extended breaks from work to stay at home though when needed. Either way in this country it wouldn't work due to the aforementioned gender pay gap and biases.



WolfpackN64 said:
vivster said:
Fixing women's issues is too much micro management for me. The root of all discrimination issues in social settings is genderism, so that's what we should tackle instead of just treating symptoms. The goal shouldn't be to treat two distinct groups the same, but to accept that the groups aren't distinct and have equality by default. True gender equality will only arrive if we remove genders, starting with by not identifying as a specific gender.

Sometimes you need to aknowledge differences between groups and treat people differently for them to in fact be treated equally. Removing the two genders solves nothing.

The only meaningful difference between men and women in today's society is how they are brought up, which has everything to do with their gender. If there was no gender, then feminine or masculine traits would not exist, hence nobody would discriminate based on them. Women are treated differently because people are taught to believe that they are different. People expect different behavior from different genders and that is the core of the problem.

If you remove gender, people will be treated based on their actual behavior and not their expected behavior because there is no expected behavior. Separating genders has no basis in reality anymore and should be abolished. You cannot discriminate based on gender when gender doesn't exist.

Differences are important on a physiological level, not on a psychological level, gender discrimination happens only on the basis of the latter.

Last edited by vivster - on 01 September 2020

If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

curl-6 said:

Not being a woman myself, my ability to comment on their wellbeing is limited to what I hear from me female friends, colleagues, and family, and what I observe for myself, which will obviously constitute a mere sliver of the lived experience of being female here.

In my area, (autism advocacy) one big problem faced by women is that females on the spectrum are much less likely to get diagnosed than their male counterparts, or to get diagnosed at a later age, due to the difference in how the condition presents itself in women versus men.

This leads to autistic women having to endure more confusion, psychological distress, and misdiagnosis with other conditions; one of my ex girlfriends was misdiagnosed with bipolar and schizophrenia before they finally worked out in her 20s that she was just autistic.

Due to men being more widely diagnosed than women, my field is also highly male-dominated at present, though thankfully this is starting to change as I am seeing a generation of autistic women my age and younger who are joining the advocacy movement pushing for greater awareness and acceptance of autistic women. It's an exciting and encouraging change to watch.

I've found this to be easily the most interesting reply so far because I actually learned something from it! Don't have much to add to it as someone who isn't on the autism spectrum myself, but just wanted to formally thank you for posting it.



Dulfite said:
Stereotypically assuming, because this site is dominated by men, that we would be sexist is, itself, sexist against men. Not the best start. May want to change the language of the OP.

Secondly, based on my years of experience, this site is significantly left leaning politically, or at least the ones generally commenting are, and lefties are more 3rd wave feminism supporters.

Which brings me to my third point. Feminism, stages 1/2, are basically supported by the mass (rights for women to vote and rights for women to get paid equally), but third wave (women should be able to murder babies in their womb), and fourth wave (all white women are evil, only minorities should gain more) are the two that many disagree with. I don't know any conservatives that don't agree with 1st and 2nd wave feminism, but plenty that disagree with 3rd and 4th. I'd recommend expanding on what you mean by feminism in the OP to avoid confusion.

Since this was among the most up-voted replies (tied for the most), I figured I'd focus on responding to this for now, as it seems to concentrate a lot of people's opinions. I'll go through this in a paragraph-by-paragraph way:

First, let's dispense with the annoying part. You claim here and in your follow-up post on abortion, that women in the tens of millions go around casually 'murdering giggling babies' just for the fun of it so they can have more sex, cue witch cackle. Yet you claim that I'm the sexist here because, oddly, I felt intimidated about dedicating a whole topic to women's issues on an otherwise all-male forum. ...Well just to trying to help you put matters back in perspective.

Concerning your belief that this site "is significantly left leaning politically", two things:

1) The existence of self-described conservative feminists ought to show that you don't actually have to be left-leaning to be a feminist. I mean the survey on feminism I linked you to in the OP (which was the second link) indicated that even 42% of Republican women in this country describe themselves as feminists today! AND...

2) It's interesting that you perceive VGC's political lean as leftist because I perceive it as more right-leaning than my country overall is, particularly when it comes to topics like feminism, women's issues, women's interests, that sort of thing. Unlike you though, I've got actual evidence to support my opinion. For example, when Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court came up and blew up in controversy mainly because he had been credibly accused of sexual assault, 47% of VGC users felt that he deserved to be confirmed anyway, as compared with barely a third of the overall U.S. population contemporaneously. Or something else that's stuck out to me has been the sort of opinions that are given an official platform on the main page. Here for instance is the most popular article I've seen posted thereto to judge by the number of views it got. Also, check out the comment section because the most up-voted entries are exactly the sort you'd think they'd be; exactly the reaction the article, and by implication the site management, intended to elicit. But maybe that's just me and a more typical woman would feel differently. Maybe.

Finally, concerning feminist waves, I think you've grossly oversimplified the contours thereof such as to follow the narrative of the conservative "difference" feminists. For example, I consider myself to be a second wave feminist ideologically, yet my views on women's issues are clearly pro-choice and seem to skew well to the left of yours on balance. Also, the contents of the current (fourth) feminist wave are not uniform; they have differed by country and region of the world and this is especially true when you take into account the starkly different example of South Korea where lesbian feminism (a school that barely exists anymore in the Western world) is far more common than intersectional feminism.